AMTRAK NEC: Springfield Shuttle/Regional/Valley Flyer/Inland Routing

Traingeek3629 wrote:I

Have there been any recent announcements on the extension to Greenfield or the Springfield-Boston service?

Amtrak's probable nutty response " Can't start service as it will be too successful we don't have the equipment "

Not too surprised that Amtrak Train # 460 was very crowded. I'm sure that many of those people using 460 were connecting from Amtrak 160 rather than MNR. As for your Ctrail train, 2/3 crowded in two cars probably isn't too bad during weekend day. It's probably better than the midday Shore Line East trains.

Why do Amtrak Virginia trains start and end at Springfield on the weekend?

Arlington wrote:Why do Amtrak Virginia trains start and end at Springfield on the weekend?

I’ll readily admit I don’t know, but let’s try using some logic to develope reasons.

Amtrak runs fewer trains on the weekends because there are less customers.
Amtrak performs more maintenance on equipment during the weekend because they are not needed to provide service.
Amtrak has a huge yard in New York, and smaller yards in Virginia and Massachusetts.
There is more room for idle Amtrak equipment in New York than elsewhere.
Amtrak has larger maintenance facilities and more manpower in New York.

So where do you think Amtrak logically will not want idle equipment?
How about Virginia and Massachusetts?

^ All true, perhaps, but not persuasive.
1) Does Springfield, Massachusetts count as "New York" in your reasoning ??? How does terminating (and originating) a train in Springfield MA fit the proposed logic of wanting to terminate/originate train in New York.
2) "Amtrak runs fewer trains on the weekends because there are less customers." Except the Amtrak Virginia train is probably relatively well patronized on weekends, given its student-heavy origins. While obviously some WAS-NYP-BOS trains get less busy, I'd say that a Virginia train would be more needed all the way to Boston.

Traingeek3629 wrote:I took a ride on 460 and 6455 on Sunday. I noticed that the CTrail trains now run with 3 cars instead of two.

You mean the Amtrak Shuttles, right? The CTrail trains run with four cars each.

Arlington wrote:2) "Amtrak runs fewer trains on the weekends because there are less customers." Except the Amtrak Virginia train is probably relatively well patronized on weekends, given its student-heavy origins. While obviously some WAS-NYP-BOS trains get less busy, I'd say that a Virginia train would be more needed all the way to Boston.

But how many passengers are actually riding from somewhere in VA all the way to BOS? That's at least an 8 hour ride.

^ it is exactly on weekends that non-business travellers would have *more* patience for the *longer* (Boston) end, but instead turns to Springfield.

I might accept that with airfares lower on weekends, much of the price sensitive NEC traffic can fly, but that NHHS tickets can maintain price because there are *not* good airport alternatives on weekends and prices stay high?

Arlington wrote:^ it is exactly on weekends that non-business travellers would have *more* patience for the *longer* (Boston) end, but instead turns to Springfield.

I might accept that with airfares lower on weekends, much of the price sensitive NEC traffic can fly, but that NHHS tickets can maintain price because there are *not* good airport alternatives on weekends and prices stay high?

Bradley Airport is a perfectly fine alternative.

Sorry? About 1/3 of the Virginia trains still operate to/from BOS on the weekends, as usual.
-to/from BOS: 65/66/67, 195, 99, 164, 82, 88, 194, 96
-to/from SPG: 157, 147 (no northbound)
-to/from NYP: 50/51, 91/92, 145, 19/20, 71, 87, 97/98, 156, 89/90, 79/89

I do find it odd that there aren’t any northbound Virginia to Springfield trains, but I guess there just isn’t any call for it.

benboston wrote:Bradley Airport is a perfectly fine alternative.

But not highly fare competitive, the way that WAS - NYC - BOS become(s) on the weekends when the air shuttle capacity is mostly still available at the airport but the business traffic has evaporated.

So let me rephrase my unanswered question: Why start the Roanoke (Sa 147) and Norfolk (Su 157) trains from Springfield on weekends only? (when no VA trains start at SPG during the week). These trains are the return of the equipment for train Fr 138 (which runs WAS-SPG on Friday only) and Sa 148 (which runs WAS-SPG on Saturday only)

And let me advance my own hypothesis:
During the week, BOS-Virginia demand is strong enough to start at BOS and sell a few "all the way through" tickets (like my Mother) (Trains 171 BOS-RNK,
On weekends, BOS-WAS airfares drop, which diverts end-to-end demand onto planes, making BOS originations not worth scheduling
On weekends SPG/HFD does not see as big a price drop on the airside and so is worth running the 138/147 and 148/157 turns.

Well there could be different things at play here...

It's an interesting equipment rotation, which doesn't leave sets solely captive in Virginia service, like the way 65-66-67 is semi captive to SHSY, unless some tinkering happens with the WAS engine change. Springfield is ill equipped to handle a Regional or two's consists for more than the overnight turn and calendar inspection happening in Springfield (this is exaggerated with a platform track OOS for the HLP work happening there). Sending it out of town or continuing it on the B&A would be more ideal to keep the wheels moving and revenue flowing, but alas Virginia service

The Saturday addition of 2249 (and semi-counterpart 2290) are showing the growth of the staying over business crowd, and with 2251 departing roughly in the same slot that a 147 from BOS would look like (aka 171 M-F). You are moving your core service from BOS to NYP & WAS 45+ mins quicker on the AX than the Lynchburger. 147 still plays cleanup on the MN after the engine change from NHV all the way to WAS. Both 195 and 99 have healthy ridership on the weekends, and 2249 and 2251 help take the load off of the Regionals on the Shoreline portion.

Can the New England market truly bear two Regionals on the shoreline on a Sunday within 30 minutes of each other? The second of which departing NYP an hour later and making 2 additional stops. You also got 99 batting cleanup both days within 2 hours later. 99 is quite crowded BOS-NHV on a Sunday, but not to a sell-out point. Is it worth taking a well performing train and making it into two ok performing trains over that Segment.

From the times I rode this year: 94 and 194 feature anemic ridership east of NHV, so doubling down on another Virginan set to BOS at that time-frame wouldn't help bolster ridership on the Shoreline.

Worth noting in the context of both the Springfield line and Pittsfield service-- the incoming chairman of the House Ways & Means Committee is none other than Rep. Richard Neal, the former Mayor of Springfield. His district- MA-1- covers Springfield, Palmer and pretty much the entire state west of the Connecticut River.

Press Release

Fair-use exception:

CTDOT ANNOUNCES NEW CTRAIL HARTFORD LINE SCHEDULE EFFECTIVE MONDAY,

NOVEMBER 12, 2018

Schedule refinements allow for additional service to Springfield and weekday connecting service arriving in New York City before 9 a.m.

The Connecticut Department of Transportation (CTDOT) today announced that a new CTrail Hartford Line schedule will go into effect on Monday, November 12, 2018. The new Hartford Line schedule is not drastically different than the previous schedule, but does feature refinements that will provide more service between Hartford and Springfield as well as connecting New Haven Line service on Metro-North that arrives in New York City before 9 a.m.

The new schedule also covers operations during the upcoming holidays. Hartford Line trains will operate every day, but using a Saturday or Sunday schedule when the holiday (including Christmas Eve and New Year’s Eve Day this year) falls on a weekday. Riders planning travel during these timeframes should visit http://www.hartfordline.com" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false; for the exact schedule.

Improvement in the new schedule came as a result of the completed installation of a second track between Hartford and Windsor, as well as schedule adjustments by Metro-North and Amtrak regional service.

The second track allows trains operating north of Hartford to pass each other quickly and efficiently, providing additional rail capacity and increasing reliability. Two sets of track now run the length of the Hartford Line corridor from New Haven to Windsor, except for a small portion of single track near Hartford’s Union Station which will be completed as part of the I-84 Hartford Project.

“The new Hartford Line schedule includes an additional trip extended to Springfield every day. We will now offer 2[JHS1] 4 daily weekday trips between Hartford and Springfield,” stated CTDOT Commissioner James Redeker. “Less than six months after the launch of the Hartford Line, we have increased service on the line and are closer to reaching the 2030 vision of rail passenger service in New England.”

The 2030 vision for the Hartford Line includes 50 trains per day between New Haven and Springfield, as well as new stations in North Haven, Newington, West Hartford, Windsor, Windsor Locks, and Enfield.

The new schedule can be viewed at (direct link to new schedule on the HL website). Hard copies of the schedule are available at all train stations along the Hartford Line corridor.

Jeff Smith wrote:“The new Hartford Line schedule includes an additional trip extended to Springfield every day. We will now offer 2[JHS1] 4 daily weekday trips between Hartford and Springfield,” stated CTDOT Commissioner James Redeker. “Less than six months after the launch of the Hartford Line, we have increased service on the line and are closer to reaching the 2030 vision of rail passenger service in New England.”

The 2030 vision for the Hartford Line includes 50 trains per day between New Haven and Springfield, as well as new stations in North Haven, Newington, West Hartford, Windsor, Windsor Locks, and Enfield.

50/day. Wow. That's got to be a pre-World War One level of service for this line.

Arlington wrote:So let me rephrase my unanswered question: Why start the Roanoke (Sa 147) and Norfolk (Su 157) trains from Springfield on weekends only? (when no VA trains start at SPG during the week).

While the airfares might be the deeper answer the other part may be ensuring that SPG-NYP does not lose weekend direct service.