Amtrak HHP-8 Discussion: Use, Reliability, Disposition

ApproachMedium wrote: ↑Wed Dec 15, 2021 12:38 am I will also add, that amtraks constant need to shop ACS 64s because of their plague of bugs and other such problems will likely prevent them from being leased to any agency anytime soon.

steering links, steering links, steering links!!!!! Those and this past week alot of them coming off the road have TOD issues

ApproachMedium wrote: ↑Wed Dec 15, 2021 12:38 am I will also add, that amtraks constant need to shop ACS 64s because of their plague of bugs and other such problems will likely prevent them from being leased to any agency anytime soon.

I Don't get it, I thought they were Vectrons, which have been stable for years, around the rest of the world.
What changes made them into shop queens?

I was under the impression that the chargers were okay reliability wise? I’ve asked Amtrak employees about them before and was was told they had far more electrical glitches than mechanical problems...

The HHP-8s, I think I remember them being hot garbage at first and it took a while to get the bugs worked out?

scratchyX1 wrote: ↑Wed Dec 15, 2021 4:16 pm

ApproachMedium wrote: ↑Wed Dec 15, 2021 12:38 am I will also add, that amtraks constant need to shop ACS 64s because of their plague of bugs and other such problems will likely prevent them from being leased to any agency anytime soon.

I Don't get it, I thought they were Vectrons, which have been stable for years, around the rest of the world.
What changes made them into shop queens?

Vectrons dont get slammed over horrible trackwork all day long. Vectrons do not get maintained by americans who shrug off every write up the operators put on the paperwork with "cannot reproduce" yea of course you cant, you arent going 125mph on the engine with me dummy.

The other big issue is the software has been beyond finger fudged since day one. It gets worse with every update. They still are unable to MU the new versions together correctly so any time a motor is added ahead the trail motor becomes dead in tow.

@ApproachMedium Yikes! What other gremlins do these engines experience?

Lick your fingers and touch the MU port. It will cause a trailing unit fault. The MU plugs are stupidly connected to a Digital IO station which is the root cause of many of the MU problems with these machines. They are experimenting with a relay based IO station on the new chargers because they have the same issues. Whats really stupid here is this is an industrial machine and its fouled up by stupid crap like this. Another excellent problem is the throttles having dead spots/failures. Siemens blamed it on engineers spilling stuff in the console.

I am sorry, but if a 7 dollar cup of starbucks is fouling up your 7 million dollar locomotive you should NOT be building locomotives. I cant even say at this point which is better or worse between these an HHP8s but both have their reasons for being a pail of worms. At least the ACS doesnt often leave people stranded but boy are they a lot of nonsense. Ill take a re-run of meatballs any day.

Bracdude181 wrote: ↑Wed Dec 15, 2021 4:29 pm I was under the impression that the chargers were okay reliability wise? I’ve asked Amtrak employees about them before and was was told they had far more electrical glitches than mechanical problems...

The HHP-8s, I think I remember them being hot garbage at first and it took a while to get the bugs worked out?

The big thing with the HHP-8's is the cockamamie cooling piping, allowing it to overheat. MARC HHP-8's ripped that out and straightened it out so that they're solid workhorses now.

ApproachMedium wrote: ↑Thu Dec 16, 2021 12:19 am Lick your fingers and touch the MU port. It will cause a trailing unit fault. The MU plugs are stupidly connected to a Digital IO station which is the root cause of many of the MU problems with these machines. They are experimenting with a relay based IO station on the new chargers because they have the same issues. Whats really stupid here is this is an industrial machine and its fouled up by stupid crap like this. Another excellent problem is the throttles having dead spots/failures. Siemens blamed it on engineers spilling stuff in the console.

I am sorry, but if a 7 dollar cup of starbucks is fouling up your 7 million dollar locomotive you should NOT be building locomotives. I cant even say at this point which is better or worse between these an HHP8s but both have their reasons for being a pail of worms. At least the ACS doesnt often leave people stranded but boy are they a lot of nonsense. Ill take a re-run of meatballs any day.

Makes sense as to why they issued all those RFE notices on IO faults or not using the regen with a diesel in tow… I don’t know the reason for the power moves at night on 67 but as of lately they have been nothing but problems with the electric/diesel lashup.

@Redwolf Sounds like MARC actually cares about having reliable power. They got some of the 4100 series geeps from NJT a while back and tore out the emission controlling garbage that NJT put in them. No problems ever since.

@ApproachMedium So all that stuff I was hearing about electrical issues is true it seems. Just when I thought NJT was bad! Their Bombardier power is so highly disgusting that calling it garbage would be honoring it!!

In the case of MARC, the "helltrain" caused so much bad press, they want to avoid it happening again.
Do the Stock Vectrons have the same MU port issue?

ApproachMedium wrote: ↑Wed Dec 15, 2021 11:01 pm

scratchyX1 wrote: ↑Wed Dec 15, 2021 4:16 pm

ApproachMedium wrote: ↑Wed Dec 15, 2021 12:38 am I will also add, that amtraks constant need to shop ACS 64s because of their plague of bugs and other such problems will likely prevent them from being leased to any agency anytime soon.

I Don't get it, I thought they were Vectrons, which have been stable for years, around the rest of the world.
What changes made them into shop queens?

Vectrons dont get slammed over horrible trackwork all day long. Vectrons do not get maintained by americans who shrug off every write up the operators put on the paperwork with "cannot reproduce" yea of course you cant, you arent going 125mph on the engine with me dummy.

The other big issue is the software has been beyond finger fudged since day one. It gets worse with every update. They still are unable to MU the new versions together correctly so any time a motor is added ahead the trail motor becomes dead in tow.

Perhaps it's time Amtrak institute some ride-alongs so the mechanics can see the problems in the field.

ApproachMedium wrote: ↑Wed Dec 15, 2021 11:01 pm
Vectrons do not get maintained by americans who shrug off every write up the operators put on the paperwork with "cannot reproduce" yea of course you cant, you arent going 125mph on the engine with me dummy.

Sounds like fighting words to me! I take pride in my work!
But in all seriousness, it has more to do with management wanting to get the trains back out on the road asap. I cant tell you how many times I make the call to shop a loco for what ever reason it may be, only to have 2 foremen and 2 general foreman to come over and second guess everything you looked at, and they determine that they know more then you and refuse to shop the unit. Never mind the fact that they're former electricians or have no rr experience.

Greg Moore wrote:
Perhaps it's time Amtrak institute some ride-alongs so the mechanics can see the problems in the field.

Trust me, I'd love nothing more then to take a ride along every once in a while

8th Notch wrote: ↑Thu Dec 16, 2021 8:48 am
Makes sense as to why they issued all those RFE notices on IO faults or not using the regen with a diesel in tow… I don’t know the reason for the power moves at night on 67 but as of lately they have been nothing but problems with the electric/diesel lashup.

The diesels are because of power outages for catenary pole installs as well as some nonsense on metro north at night. The diesels and ACS DO NOT PLAY ANYMORE.

scratchyX1 wrote: ↑Thu Dec 16, 2021 11:17 am In the case of MARC, the "helltrain" caused so much bad press, they want to avoid it happening again.
Do the Stock Vectrons have the same MU port issue?

Stock vectrons use a completely different form of multiple unit communications.

This stupid thing wont let me make that many posts so here we go. I used to work in mechanical and know all about the formans second guessing your shops etc. I still have formans doing this now, and i am an engineer. These are people i worked under. i remind them if they are standing next to me i have called them because i cannot correct the problem or im legally not allowed to do so.

The regen with diesel in tow is the least of the problems. I havent gotten a diesel to work behind an ACS in forever. Whatever they screwed up it does nothing now. They need to replace the IO stations with the analog relay ones, at least the 2 that deal with the MU and COMM ports.

Bracdude181 wrote: ↑Thu Dec 16, 2021 9:45 am @Redwolf Sounds like MARC actually cares about having reliable power. They got some of the 4100 series geeps from NJT a while back and tore out the emission controlling garbage that NJT put in them. No problems ever since.

scratchyX1 wrote:In the case of MARC, the "helltrain" caused so much bad press, they want to avoid it happening again.

Bad press, and I think an NTSB-level investigation. The immediate end result was an actual increase in service frequency on the Penn/NEC for MARC.. and strangely enough more capacity, plus MARC 68 being put on standby in Odenton for rescues. Oh, and the HHP-8's being mothballed until 2+ years ago when they rehabbed them and got them actually working(ie cooling) properly.