Amtrak Heartland Flyer Discussion and Possible Extension

Checking the satellite view, it's even worse. There is no interlock that allows going from the T&P to UP track. To do that, you have to go T&P to Texas Central, then go through Tower 55 twice... or lay down new track.

But as Mr Norman can relate, what do I know? The last time I was in Dallas, it was to kick off another furry convention north of downtown in 2009 (I had airline vouchers to burn off American, and got invited to help a bit). So I flew over to DFW and grabbed a SuperShuttle to the hotel (DART Orange line hadn't been built out to it yet, didn't know about the TRE, and it was more direct anyway). Today... well, I'd be considering ether TRE or Orange to get into downtown Dallas to get to my company HQ...

Seems like having TRE bookable as a Thruway connection would be a good start. There's a lot of missed opportunity where having commuter rail services as Thruway connections would make things easier for passengers.

Maybe, but really not needed. I have yet to see the TRE ever not admit a paying passenger aboard their trains due to capacity restraints. They allow standing and will cram overflows aboard.

Actually that's something that is missing--it's not that TRE does or does not have room on any given trip--it's the being able to book a trip from (for example) Norman OK to Irving TX (AMTK-TRE) or Atlantic City NJ to Rockport MA (NJT-AMTK-MBTA) all in one go that is missing.

Last I knew, the Heartland ran double-ended with a cabbage, so there's no need for wyeing and turning the equipment at either end.

If a turn is needed, there's a wye where the TRE and FWWR lines split about a half mile outside the FTW station complex. Absolutely no need to move thru Tower 55.

So not forget that in 2 years or hopefully less there will be another LD train. Now how it will operate is anyone's guess. But if FTW<> ATL will need to wye FTW. If just DAL also wye????

west point wrote: ↑Sat Sep 30, 2023 5:02 pm So not forget that in 2 years or hopefully less there will be another LD train. Now how it will operate is anyone's guess. But if FTW<> ATL will need to wye FTW. If just DAL also wye????

You need to wye a train if it does not have a locomotive on both ends of the train, or a locomotive on one end and a cab car on the opposite end. No Amtrak long distance train today operates that way. Only Amtrak shorter regional trains do.
So if Amtrak does not buy new cab cars for this long distance train, they it will need to be wye wherever it terminates.
NYC has a loop on Long Island to turn entire trains around. Neither Dallas nor Fort Worth regularly wyes their trains, as the Texas Eagle runs through and the Heartland Flyer uses a cab car or two locomotives on opposite ends. The TRE uses a locomotive and a cab car on opposite ends, so it does not need to be wye. Wyeing a train in Fort Worth would be easier than in Dallas, assuming the Crescent extension to DFW gets trackage rights to the TRE corridor.

The Heartland Flyer takes 4 hours to run, and could qualify for additional runs... and push-pull service.

Yes, it does operate in push-pull. It is still not a long distance train. Since its route is less than 750 miles in length, it is considered a regional train and both Oklahoma and Texas subsidizes it for $millions every year. It used to run with three Superliners in its consist, but I have seen it recently run with just two Suoerliners in its consist.
Advocates in Oklahoma and Kansas would like it extended north to Wichita, advocates in Texas would like to extend it south to San Antonio. So far, neither has found the cash or a state legislature willing to subsidize either extension.

west point wrote:So not forget that in 2 years or hopefully less there will be another LD train. Now how it will operate is anyone's guess. But if FTW<> ATL will need to wye FTW. If just DAL also wye????

Yeah, nothing is quite set in stone on that. It's still just a proposal so I wouldn't count on anything for at least 3 years.

Right now it sounds like it would simply be a Dallas to Meridian train that connects to the crescent, and that is under 750 mi.

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https://www.ksn.com/news/local/bringing ... input/amp/

Bringing Amtrak back to Wichita – KDOT wants input

WICHITA, Kan. (KSNW) — It has been more than four decades since Amtrak had service in Wichita, and the push to bring it back continues.



...
KDOT, the Oklahoma Department of Transportation, and the Texas Department of Transportation are interested in extending the Heartland Flyer daily passenger rail service from Oklahoma City to Newton, where it would connect with the Southwest Chief national route.

The Heartland Flyer currently provides service between Ft. Worth and Oklahoma City. The Southwest Chief offers daily roundtrip service between Chicago and Los Angeles.

If transportation experts decide it is feasible, the extended Heartland Flyer route would add stops in Wichita and Arkansas City in Kansas. It would also add stops in Ponca City, Perry, Guthrie, and Edmond, Oklahoma.
...

...

So......if this is all about Wichita, that's, "uh, not exactly" convenient schedule times.

Second, is anyone proposing through Sleepers and Coaches to be interchanged between trains at Newton? I think we all know around here how much Amtrak "loves" handling cars between trains.

Finally, and I don't mean to talk politics around here, but at this time, it appears there will be a new occupant at 1600 Penn come fourteen months from now. It further appears the likely one will have no use for these "studies".

All told, consultants had best "chow down" while they still can.

I just returned from the Dallas metroplex after a week of visiting relatives in both Dallas and Fort Worth, and boy let me tell you, I thought New Jersey drivers were bad but driving in the DFW metroplex is at a whole other level! That whole region, while benefiting from some recent transit improvements, could sure use a whole lot more imo. It always amazed me that Fort Worth - Oklahoma City could manage to get an Amtrak train while Dallas - Houston remains without any rail link, but blame Southwest, American Airlines, and the general political climate I guess? I did get to ride one train, or rail vehicle at least, if this counts!

Jeff Smith wrote: ↑Wed Nov 29, 2023 6:47 am https://www.ksn.com/news/local/bringing ... input/amp/

Bringing Amtrak back to Wichita – KDOT wants input

WICHITA, Kan. (KSNW) — It has been more than four decades since Amtrak had service in Wichita, and the push to bring it back continues.





...
KDOT, the Oklahoma Department of Transportation, and the Texas Department of Transportation are interested in extending the Heartland Flyer daily passenger rail service from Oklahoma City to Newton, where it would connect with the Southwest Chief national route.

The Heartland Flyer currently provides service between Ft. Worth and Oklahoma City. The Southwest Chief offers daily roundtrip service between Chicago and Los Angeles.

If transportation experts decide it is feasible, the extended Heartland Flyer route would add stops in Wichita and Arkansas City in Kansas. It would also add stops in Ponca City, Perry, Guthrie, and Edmond, Oklahoma.
...

...

442 AM into Wichita? This is every bit as stupid as the attempt by the Kansas foamer fans in 2007-11. Oh. That failed.

The only thing that supports this right now is Kansas has a D Governor. Those of us who were around the last time remember when Sam Brownback became Governor. The matter died on the sword of policy initiatives not invented by the Kansas Republican Party.

Kansas Democrats have until November 2026 to get wheels rolling. If it doesn’t happen, and the governors mansion changes hands, fogettboutit!

Those times are built on connecting to the Southwest Chief without requiring additional trainsets and without changing the existing service schedule. But the other reality is that if someone wanted to go from Wichita to San Antonio, that 4 AM departure from Wichita is the only time that works without upgrading the tracks from Class 3 to Class 4.

(In other words, this seems to be a reasonable way to test the concept before making relatively significant investments such as additional trainsets or track upgrades.)