Amtrak Heartland Flyer Discussion and Possible Extension

STrRedWolf wrote: ↑Wed Oct 20, 2021 6:55 amIf I remember the reports, the driver called police for assistance and the police tried to shut down the line ASAP.

There was a similar situation in central Florida in the 1970s. Seaboard Coast Line, the track owner, assured the caller that none of their trains were in the area.
Nobody tried to notify Amtrak and a Silver service train hit the truck. Again, more recently, when Florida State Police called CSXT to report a wheel had just fallen off a Circus train, they were told "You have to call Ringling Bros., it's not our train". The National Transportation Safety Board was not impressed.

Extension News: https://www.ctnewsonline.com/news/artic ... 383f2.html

A big incentive to extend and improve passenger rail service is the availability of billions of dollars in federal funding to be distributed nationwide during the next five years, it was reported at a legislative caucus in Topeka last week.

That’s good news to Cowley County passenger rail proponents, who have organized to advocate the return of Amtrak for well over 20 years. Cowley County lost Amtrak service in 1979, when the Chicago-Houston Lone Star line was discontinued.
...
The Heartland Flyer was established in 1999 and continues to run between Oklahoma City and Fort Worth, Texas. Extending the line north to Newton from Oklahoma City would provide train riders from several northern Oklahoma towns, Ark City and Wichita access to the national passenger rail system. From Newton, train riders could catch the Southwest Chief Amtrak train that runs from Chicago to Los Angeles.
...

Jeff Smith wrote: ↑Sat Feb 11, 2023 6:21 am Extension News: https://www.ctnewsonline.com/news/artic ... 383f2.html

A big incentive to extend and improve passenger rail service is the availability of billions of dollars in federal funding to be distributed nationwide during the next five years, it was reported at a legislative caucus in Topeka last week.

That’s good news to Cowley County passenger rail proponents, who have organized to advocate the return of Amtrak for well over 20 years. Cowley County lost Amtrak service in 1979, when the Chicago-Houston Lone Star line was discontinued.
...
The Heartland Flyer was established in 1999 and continues to run between Oklahoma City and Fort Worth, Texas. Extending the line north to Newton from Oklahoma City would provide train riders from several northern Oklahoma towns, Ark City and Wichita access to the national passenger rail system. From Newton, train riders could catch the Southwest Chief Amtrak train that runs from Chicago to Los Angeles.
...

I would love to see the Hearland Flyer extended to Newton, but I am realistic. news articles like this one do not even give all the facts, like how many $billions will be left over for the Heartland Flyer once all the bridges and tunnels are built for Amtrak's Nrtheast Corridor? Shucks, the new article does not even mention how many $billions were allocated much less how many $billions will be left after the NEC gets all it needs.
Additionally, the news article does not even look at when the trains will arrive in northern Oklahoma. The existing Heartland Flyer departs OKC at 8:25 am and returns the same day at 9:25 pm. Easily accomplished by two train crews working an 8 hour day. Anything further north would have to depart earlier and arrive much later if using just one train set. I am not even sure the two train crews could be extended to work that long to reach Newton. Otherwise it would require two train sets with at least two more train crews. Costs every year of maintenance and operations and therefore losses will more than double the existing train, costs that Texas already is uncomfortable with.
The FRA, not Amtrak specifically, is more than willing to help pay for most, if not all, the capital costs of extending the train services, but neither the FRA or Amtrak is willing to pay the losses to run this train, it expects the States to foot that bill. The existing $5 to $6 milllion per year adds up very quickly, doubling those subsidies will add up twice as fast.

Are we still litigating this?

Let me be blunt: The Kansas Legislature will not pony up the money: No today, not tomorrow, not a year from now, not 10 years from now, not ever.

Rail Forum litigated this into the ground 12-16 years ago. GBN and I were part of it. The foamer in Kansas didn’t know how to win a political victory, how to work a room. When Sam Brownback became Governor, the doors and windows were bricked up.

Extending the Flyer won’t happen in this century.

Why not make it thru cars to / from CHI on the chief ?

My instinct is skepticism but it’s interesting to see the GOP majority leader of the KS senate sign on.

As I said over a decade ago, the Kansas Senate is one place, the Kansas House another. You have to win both. No one in the railroad advocacy world has invested effort in winning the Kansas House. Until that happens….crickets.

west point wrote: ↑Sun Feb 12, 2023 12:36 am Why not make it thru cars to / from CHI on the chief ?

How many trains does Amtrak still switch enroute? It’s all but a lost art.

7-27 SPK
421-1 SAS
and the one that the Gunnmen got rid of, and can't understand why it was restored:
449-49 ALB

I can remember how the New Haven would routinely add/cut Coaches at their namesake. They even had cuts at Stamford (all our other New Haven hands around here, except me for the time being, have moved on to "next life") just as part of doing business.

But "things are different today" with enhanced safety protocols and need to hook up HEP lines rather than steam lines, which during summer weren't needed.

When I've been overseas, I just cringe when I see a Carman (I don't know what they call the position over there) between the cars handling their hook and eye couplers.

Mr. Randall W, "I get it".

Apparently, the rationale is that we're breaking the train anyway, so what's the difference when we move the power around, there are three cars behind it?

It just seems to me that there is not all that much passenger inconvenience considering the time of day the moves occur. Besides, how must it "go down" on the passengers in the Boston sleeper, with not even a Baggage car between them and the engines, "listening to the music" when they've paid megabucks for a night of sleep?

Gilbert B Norman wrote: I can remember how the New Haven would routinely add/cut Coaches at their namesake. They even had cuts at Stamford (all our other New Haven hands around here, except me for the time being, have moved on to "next life") just as part of doing business.

The Vermonter regularly adds/removes a car at New Haven, but its easier to do since they're changing power anyway (electric<->diesel). South of NHV, a 6 car capacity train is needed... north of NHV, not so much.

449-448 used to carry a baggage car. I assume it was just behind the locomotives, as usual, such that the combined train ran with a baggage car at each end, just as it ran with sleepers at each end, then coaches inside them, then a diner (from 48-49) and a cafe (from 448-449).
I my experience all the cars were full west of Albany and most of 449 was full along its route, so I assume that while they did cross-platform transfers at Albany-R-I-cant-spell they had to carry more empty cars on btwn NYP and Albany or they lsot capacity.