Amtrak Empire, LIRR, MNRR/CTDOT Dual Mode Procurement - Charger Variants

A lot of this talk about DMUs reminds me what was the reasons for getting SPVs. Prediction ==== If DMUs are purchased within 10 - 15 years will be replaced with EMUs.

west point wrote: ↑Sat May 22, 2021 8:22 pmA lot of this talk about DMUs reminds me what was the reasons for getting SPVs. Prediction ==== If DMUs are purchased within 10 - 15 years will be replaced with EMUs.

It's going to be really tough to make an argument for electrifying Waterbury, Wassaic, Greenport, or Patchogue to Montauk. There's a role for DMUs and eventually HMUs.

west point wrote: ↑Sat May 22, 2021 8:22 pm A lot of this talk about DMUs reminds me what was the reasons for getting SPVs. Prediction ==== If DMUs are purchased within 10 - 15 years will be replaced with EMUs.

The thing is - the concept behind SPV's was relatively sound and true; and the idea of a modern-day RDC would have been a good one.

However, everything else with them was the problem.

Also - i see no case for electrifying, say, the Atlantic City Line, or the Waterbury Branch, or to Greenport...

ConstanceR46 wrote: ↑Sun May 23, 2021 3:41 pmThe thing is - the concept behind SPV's was relatively sound and true; and the idea of a modern-day RDC would have been a good one.

The Nippon-Sharyo DMUs are really nice, their current design can't clear the third rail though. The Colorado Railcar DMUs were arguably the first modern FRA-compliant DMUs, they were nice until CRC went out of business.

Quick update on progress for these engines.

https://www.trains.com/trn/news-reviews ... -stations/

HARTFORD, Conn. — Funding for new locomotives and two new stations is included in $839 million in transportation projects approved Tuesday by Connecticut’s State Bond Commission, the Hartford Courant reports.

The commission unanimously approved the set of 58 transportation projects. Included are $280 million for new dual-power locomotives to replace aging diesels used on some Metro-North Railroad branch lines, which will enable new express service to New York City. A release from the office of Gov. Ned Lamont and the bond commission agenda do not indicate the number of locomotives involved or other details of the planned purchase.

Saw some new info today from NGEC. They are calling the new dual modes the ALC42e. Metronorth and LIRR variants will have third rail shoes and will be certfied for 80 in that mode. The state equipment might end up with a hybrid passenger car with a catenary pickup and battery packs for any gaps. All the ALC42e's will have lithium-ion batteries to bridge any gaps in 3rd rail. Timeline looks like 2024/2025 delivery. LIRR versions will have the 36 pin plug for the C3 units. Should be able to supply power to 8 trailers vs 6 on the current.

If the LIRR and MNRR use a separate diesel loco and use the Amtrak version of the power car next to the loco that can solve many of the weight problems. This is the first I have heard of this but it should work fairly well. The biggest problem is the current draw using a power car. If the batteries can provide enough back up DC 3rd rail will work fairly well. Amtrak using CAT 12Kv with transformer in power car will enable them to accelerate to 125. No weight problems with much of the AC - DC equipment in the power car.
DC third rail is somewhat different. Now with both third rail and 12Kv AC CAT is a whole another ball of wax.

If for the LIRR/MNRR the powercar and ALC42 have 3 rail pickup shoes then there is no need for an pan on the hybride powercar. Less weigth and cheaper. I suspect that NY state version will be an Amtrak ALC42E variant

"Metro-North Dual Mode Locomotive Equipment as of 6-14-22:

Metro-North and Siemens have closed the Preliminary Design Review (PDR) stage, and have moved to Final Design Review (FDR). Siemens has started the process of submitting FDR documents to Metro-North and they are under review."

From the NGEC June minutes.

For Amtrak.
On the Intercity Trainset (ICT): Preliminary Design Review is complete, and they are starting on Intermediate Design Review and expect a hard mock-up in July.

Pensyfan19 wrote: ↑Wed Dec 22, 2021 5:32 pm Quick update on progress for these engines.

https://www.trains.com/trn/news-reviews ... -stations/

Ugh, we're involved in this stupid boondoggle too. Our only interest in it is Danbury. We should just throw the wire back up to Danbury/New Milford and get out of this dual-mode stupidity.

I'd love to see seasonal/occasional service to Kent and beyond, but I feel like with the SC-44 or ALC-42 fleets, they are clean enough that they could run occasional diesel service into NYP without smoking the place out. Or people would just have to switch at SoNo.

I think an ALP-45DP solves the Danbury issue, provided it's utilized to Penn as part of PSA. I don't object to wire, but its expensive.

This is not the correct thread but more about these dual modes. I cannot see Amtrak ordering Battery - Diesel locos to power the west side trains. The ALC-42E has a better chance of proving reliability. What Amtrak probably needs is to add CAT from the present end of the wEST side tunnel to the MNRR connection. That can possibly cut 1 - 2 inutes off schedule with its faster acceleraton. As well the units would then be interchangeable on all NEC routes.

However, it may be NY State is dictating this hybrid to prevent NEC interchange and to allow for running Amtrak to NYG?

Jeff Smith wrote: ↑Sat Oct 08, 2022 11:27 amI think an ALP-45DP solves the Danbury issue, provided it's utilized to Penn as part of PSA. I don't object to wire, but its expensive.

If we would not do this stupid dual-mode boondoggle, the wire wouldn't cost much in comparison. In the very long term, the wire ends up being cheaper, as the same equipment that works on the New Haven Line would work up to Danbury/New Milford.

west point wrote: ↑Fri Oct 21, 2022 2:22 amThis is not the correct thread but more about these dual modes. I cannot see Amtrak ordering Battery - Diesel locos to power the west side trains. The ALC-42E has a better chance of proving reliability.

Amtrak's needs are very different. They need overhead wire diesel dual modes that can run a few hundred mile runs economically on diesel power to offer offshoot services from the NEC. There are a whole bunch of service possibilities that could branch off of the NEC if dual-modes were available.

Amtrak has a legitimate need for dual-modes, MNRR and LIRR don't, and should electrify their routes that need direct service to GCT and NYP.