Amtrak Empire, LIRR, MNRR/CTDOT Dual Mode Procurement - Charger Variants

I think an ALP-45DP solves the Danbury issue, provided it's utilized to Penn as part of PSA. I don't object to wire, but its expensive.

Adding just 6 ALP-45DPs (to replace the existing P32AC-DMs) introduce a 2nd new locomotive type from a new vendor into the MNR pool fleet (the 1st is the SC-44 DMs).

The 2022-2026 CT State Rail Plan states:

This investment also includes the procurement of new dual-mode locomotives to support one-seat ride service for non-electrified segments of the Connecticut rail network (Waterbury Branch Line, Danbury Branch Line, Hartford Line). CTDOT also plans to replace the Metro-North Railroad fleet (push-pull rail cars and dual-mode locomotives) operating on the Waterbury Branch and Danbury Branch Lines.

This is not the correct thread but more about these dual modes. I cannot see Amtrak ordering Battery - Diesel locos to power the west side trains. The ALC-42E has a better chance of proving reliability. What Amtrak probably needs is to add CAT from the present end of the wEST side tunnel to the MNRR connection. That can possibly cut 1 - 2 inutes off schedule with its faster acceleraton. As well the units would then be interchangeable on all NEC routes.

However, it may be NY State is dictating this hybrid to prevent NEC interchange and to allow for running Amtrak to NYG?

Jeff Smith wrote: ↑Sat Oct 08, 2022 11:27 amI think an ALP-45DP solves the Danbury issue, provided it's utilized to Penn as part of PSA. I don't object to wire, but its expensive.

If we would not do this stupid dual-mode boondoggle, the wire wouldn't cost much in comparison. In the very long term, the wire ends up being cheaper, as the same equipment that works on the New Haven Line would work up to Danbury/New Milford.

west point wrote: ↑Fri Oct 21, 2022 2:22 amThis is not the correct thread but more about these dual modes. I cannot see Amtrak ordering Battery - Diesel locos to power the west side trains. The ALC-42E has a better chance of proving reliability.

Amtrak's needs are very different. They need overhead wire diesel dual modes that can run a few hundred mile runs economically on diesel power to offer offshoot services from the NEC. There are a whole bunch of service possibilities that could branch off of the NEC if dual-modes were available.

Amtrak has a legitimate need for dual-modes, MNRR and LIRR don't, and should electrify their routes that need direct service to GCT and NYP.

Sinds Amtrak is buying the new IC-Trainsets with an dual power capability (AC/Diesel or Battery/Diesel), why won't LIRR and MNRR don't follow Amtrak.

Maybe change te battery to third rail and 3 powered trucks. Add some third rail pick-up to the second unit on both trucks. The trains can be used everywhere and the old worn dual locs and passenger trains can be scrapped.

The MTA probably wants higher capacity trains that are fully compatible with the existing fleet. In Metro-North's case I doub't they are getting rid of the Shoreliner cars anytime soon and I believe were looking into bilevels/multilevels to supplement the existing fleet. Having traditional loco-hauled sets allows for greater flexibility for resizing sets and transferring units across the system for pool and branch service.

As far as the MTA goes I feel like a dual-mode variant of the Charger is the better choice here, rather than fixed-trainsets.

Also LIRR operations are usually very flexible - out east, sets are shorter, and then the trains into manhattan tend to be really long.

Won't Amtrak still need to have a couple of dual modes around for the Lake Shore Limited?

Good point Randall, I wonder what the game plan is. There's no way the ICT's are running the full service as they're not set up for overnight running.

NaugyRR wrote: ↑Wed Apr 19, 2023 8:50 am Good point Randall, I wonder what the game plan is. There's no way the ICT's are running the full service as they're not set up for overnight running.

I assume the ALC42 and superliner replacements will be used for the overnights.

That's fine north of Rensselaer, but doesn't cover the NYP leg. Unless they plan on making that a cross-platform transfer instead of a through train, but that would just be plain stupid on their part.

RandallW wrote: ↑Tue Apr 18, 2023 4:40 pm Won't Amtrak still need to have a couple of dual modes around for the Lake Shore Limited?

scratchyX1 wrote:

NaugyRR wrote: ↑Wed Apr 19, 2023 8:50 am Good point Randall, I wonder what the game plan is. There's no way the ICT's are running the full service as they're not set up for overnight running.

I assume the ALC42 and superliner replacements will be used for the overnights.

Yes, ALC42's namely for NYP and fuel savings. Plus, you can't shove a Superliner into ether NYP or BOS -- the clearances aren't there (or for BOS, too tight for comfort), so you're using Viewliner equipment.

Now granted, a cross-platform transfer to a Superliner at Albany wouldn't be that bad (it'll be done during daylight) but the luggage in the baggage cars would be an issue -- easier to use the Viewliners and connect them up.

NaugyRR wrote: ↑Tue Apr 18, 2023 11:32 amThe MTA probably wants higher capacity trains that are fully compatible with the existing fleet. In Metro-North's case I doub't they are getting rid of the Shoreliner cars anytime soon and I believe were looking into bilevels/multilevels to supplement the existing fleet. Having traditional loco-hauled sets allows for greater flexibility for resizing sets and transferring units across the system for pool and branch service.

They really don't have good applications for loco-hauled anything. They should electrify to Oyster Bay, Port Jeff, Patchogue, Poughkeepsie, and Danbury, and get DMUs or HMUs for everything beyond those points with more frequent shuttle service.

The two applications that debatably would make sense for loco-hauled push-pull would be the Penn Access MN service, as it could run AC all the way, and CDOT's SLE for low-level/non-platform access.

If the empire connection is electrified with 12 kV 25 Hz maybe Amtrak(MNRR can piggyback on it) can use an ALC42E Elektro/Diesel as Dual power. MNRR can use the same loc for Penn access for west side access.

SRich wrote: ↑Fri Apr 21, 2023 10:08 am If the empire connection is electrified with 12 kV 25 Hz maybe Amtrak(MNRR can piggyback on it) can use an ALC42E Elektro/Diesel as Dual power. MNRR can use the same loc for Penn access for west side access.

They need to convert the whole thing to overhead AC electrification from Highbridge to Poughkeepsie (and Albany for Amtrak). Somewhere on the Empire Connection the 25kV/60 could meet the 11.5kv/25 and PRR third rail from NYP.