Amtrak Empire, LIRR, MNRR/CTDOT Dual Mode Procurement - Charger Variants

In a perfect world, we would electrify to Buffalo or Chicago as part of rebuilding the line for higher speed service. Given the old four track ROW from Albany west, two tracks could be left diesel for freight service and one track solely for passenger service. If we were in Europe, this would have been done already. Here, I don't know if I will see it in my lifetime.

Eventually we may see battery power for the short distance from NYP to the West Side line or for dragging through the tunnel to Sunnyside for service. Shore power could be connected when parked in Penn or Sunnyside.

Didn't NYC have battery diesels on the west side line once upon a time?

Let's move on from electrification expansion; there are other topics out there that talk about that. This is about DM replacement.

StLouSteve wrote: ↑Thu Jul 23, 2020 10:08 am In a perfect world, we would electrify to Buffalo or Chicago as part of rebuilding the line for higher speed service. Given the old four track ROW from Albany west, two tracks could be left diesel for freight service and one track solely for passenger service. If we were in Europe, this would have been done already. Here, I don't know if I will see it in my lifetime.
Unless virgin/brightline moves operations north when florida is too waterlogged to continue operations.

Eventually we may see battery power for the short distance from NYP to the West Side line or for dragging through the tunnel to Sunnyside for service. Shore power could be connected when parked in Penn or Sunnyside.

Didn't NYC have battery diesels on the west side line once upon a time?

Yes, they did have battery diesels, everything old is new again.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/GE_three-power_boxcab

According to wikipedia, the ALP45-DP has TWO Cat 3512C diesel prime-movers with Tier-2 emissions (Cat website says 3512C has Tier-3 emissions) So the new units will presumably have 3512E which is Tier-4. These are made in USA, so will be shipped to Europe then back in the finished locomotive.

But this 2nd gen units will still be shop Queens to maintain tier IV emissions
They are Class 8 Truck engines!!!

Coming up this Wednesday Dec 16th, the MTA Board will vote to approve Siemens to provide 27 dual mode locomotives for $334 million.

Metro-North Railroad on behalf of itself, Long Island Rail Road (LIRR), Connecticut Department of Transportation (CDOT) and New York State Department of Transportation (NYSDOT) requests Board approval to award a competitively-solicited contract to Siemens Mobility Inc. (SMO) in the total amount of $334,873,148 for the design, manufacture, testing, and delivery of 19 dualmode locomotives and related locomotive equipment and for the exercise of an initial option for 8 additional locomotives. The contract is funded by a Federal Transit Administration (FTA) grant.

Joint Metro-North and Long Island Committees Meeting December 2020 - See Page 5 - Board Meeting Info

Would these go to MNCR or be split somehow? Looks like MN, LI & Amtrak own around 80 dual modes total.

I was wondering the same thing at first, but notice how it says Metro-North “on behalf of” LIRR, Amtrak, and ConnDOT. Sounds like they’re the ones getting them first and then the other 3 will piggyback.

MNRR currently has 27 P32s on their roster (ConnDOT has 4) so with the option order they would be just replacing not expanding their owned potion of the fleet. I would have thought they would order a few more for spares and any post-COVID service expansion(s).

It’ll be interesting to see what ConnDOT does. Last we heard the CT2030 plan called for buying up to 18 new locomotives and 120-130 coaches for Danbury, Waterbury, Hartford Line, and Shore Line East. But with the GP40-3H and P40 rebuilds holding the latter two lines down (and those were complete overhauls so they’ve got another at least 15-20 years of life in them?) totaling another 18 units I don’t see how the new Siemens units (presumably all dual modes) won’t be kept to just the branch lines and any mainline expresses.

I know Amtrak is looking into dual-modes so that they can eliminate the engine changes at places like Washington D.C., but these have a top speed of only 160kph/100mph so I don't see them fitting the bill since with the new Viewliner IIs, all of the LD trains north of D.C. will be able to do 125mph.

Here is a good explanation of the order and options. It does say that diesel potentially for Amtrak would be either 110 or 125mph.
https://www.thelirrtoday.com/2020/12/mt ... v3oW5uKrHQ

dgvrengineer wrote: ↑Mon Dec 14, 2020 6:33 pm Here is a good explanation of the order and options. It does say that diesel potentially for Amtrak would be either 110 or 125mph.
https://www.thelirrtoday.com/2020/12/mt ... v3oW5uKrHQ

Good article. Wish I could visit the site as a whole myself.

That said, given the Siemens Charger is rated for 125 MPH... and that Siemens already have a viable dual-mode design from their EU designs, 125MPH isn't out of the question.

The weight issue is the hang up (MN's Park Ave viaduct) the possible fix could be the use of A-1-A trucks as the FL-9 used

What is the max speeds allowed on MTA North tracks towards New Haven? Is it not 79 mph? Why should MTA spend money for either 110 or 125 mph geared locomotives?
What is the max speeds allowed of MTA North tracks towards Albany? Is it not 90 mph? Again, why should NY state or Amtrak spend money for either 110 or 125 mph geared locomotives?

It is so easy to overspend for locomotive capabilities you will never need in its’ life span.
Maybe 25 years from now, after signals and tracks have been improved for higher speeds it would be appropriate to buy faster locomotives, but not now. In 25 years, they will be buying the next generation of locomotives to replace those they are buying now.

Setting the right gearing at the traction motor should allow a 85-90 MPH Max speed for the power,and still work well in commuter service
System wide MAS is 79 MPH

electricron wrote: ↑Wed Dec 16, 2020 7:41 pm What is the max speeds allowed on MTA North tracks towards New Haven? Is it not 79 mph? Why should MTA spend money for either 110 or 125 mph geared locomotives?
What is the max speeds allowed of MTA North tracks towards Albany? Is it not 90 mph? Again, why should NY state or Amtrak spend money for either 110 or 125 mph geared locomotives?

It is so easy to overspend for locomotive capabilities you will never need in its’ life span.
Maybe 25 years from now, after signals and tracks have been improved for higher speeds it would be appropriate to buy faster locomotives, but not now. In 25 years, they will be buying the next generation of locomotives to replace those they are buying now.

The question about "Why should we overspend?" can be answered by asking a few questions:

• Is there any equipment that is max 80 MPH that can haul 10+ cars stuffed full of passengers trying to get to work/home?
• What is available "now" that fits what is needed "now"?

From what I read from the above LIRR Today article, Siemens already has an engine setup that'll do the job in Germany (the Vectron DM), and it will be a "short" development cycle to adopt it to US standards. Alstrom/Bombardier and MPI would require a "long" development cycle to get there, because they don't have anything... and Metro-North/Amtrak/etc would be paying for that development.

A "short" cycle is cheap in comparison to a "long" cycle, especially if you're paying for it. 2025 vs 2030+?

I really doubt it's an overspend when you can match MAS with "current, off-the-shelf" equipment.