Amtrak 91 - CSX Collision Cayce, SC - 2/4/18

justalurker66 wrote:

DutchRailnut wrote:NTSB asking for FRA to issue emergency order.
https://www.ntsb.gov/investigations/Acc ... SR1801.pdf" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Recommendation
To the Federal Railroad Administration:

Issue an Emergency Order directing railroads to require that when signal suspensions are in effect and a switch has been reported relined for a main track, the next train or locomotive to pass the location must approach the switch location at restricted speed. After the switch position is verified, the train crew must report to the dispatcher that the switch is correctly lined for the main track before trains are permitted to operate at maximum-authorized speed. (R-18-005)

Have to love knee-jerk. Apparently SPAF worked for 13 years or so after Graniteville. But just when signal suspensions are in effect? Wow... all the dark territory still left in this country is still wide open. They were essentially running on dark territory rules with the suspension in effect. As some have noted here earlier, there are some roads out there that already require something similar to this, where every facing point switch must be approached prepared to stop.

[W]hen signal suspensions are in effect and a switch has been reported relined for a main track, the next train or locomotive to pass the location must approach the switch location at restricted speed.

That recommendation by the NTSB sounds like a very sensible idea to me.

You could have had the engineer or the conductor from the CSX train stop and verify that the switch was correctly set by the man on the ground. Or you could have the person setting the switch take a photo on his cell phone and send it to the dispatcher as proof. Gotta say I think this emergency order makes a lot of sense.

Trinnau wrote:But just when signal suspensions are in effect? Wow... all the dark territory still left in this country is still wide open.

The NTSB tried to get a rule that would have applied to dark territory in 2012 but was rebuffed by the FRA as being "too disruptive to transportation" as it would have affected 52% of railroad route miles. The NTSB are hoping that by narrowing the scope that the FRA will put this order into effect.

I'd consider always dark territory as being safer than territory with the signals suspended. The crews are accustomed to doing the job right and not relying on reminders from the signalling system to let them know when a switch they thought was closed wasn't closed. (Some people fear PTC will lead to complacency.)

I agree with extra measures being taken in areas with single suspension.

From the report
"The
engineer of the stopped CSX train had exited the lead locomotive before the Amtrak train entered
the siding, ran to safety, and was not injured. The conductor of the CSX lead locomotive saw the
Amtrak train approaching in the siding and ran to the back of locomotive. The conductor was
thrown off the locomotive and sustained minor injuries"

So the freight crew was on the scene and almost became casualties themselves.

frequentflyer wrote:From the report
"The
engineer of the stopped CSX train had exited the lead locomotive before the Amtrak train entered
the siding, ran to safety, and was not injured. The conductor of the CSX lead locomotive saw the
Amtrak train approaching in the siding and ran to the back of locomotive. The conductor was
thrown off the locomotive and sustained minor injuries"

So the freight crew was on the scene and almost became casualties themselves.

This new information changes things a bit. Did they align another switch for the main and it was mistaken for the culprit one? Did they not have time to align the switch before the Amtrak train arrived?

Now we have two more important witnesses on hand that will definitely help with the investigation.

Does anyone know if there was a camera in the lead CSX locomotive? If so, was it on?

It's right on the NTSB's web site, not hard to find.

Jim

bostontrainguy wrote:

frequentflyer wrote:From the report
"The
engineer of the stopped CSX train had exited the lead locomotive before the Amtrak train entered
the siding, ran to safety, and was not injured. The conductor of the CSX lead locomotive saw the
Amtrak train approaching in the siding and ran to the back of locomotive. The conductor was
thrown off the locomotive and sustained minor injuries"

So the freight crew was on the scene and almost became casualties themselves.

This new information changes things a bit. Did they align another switch for the main and it was mistaken for the culprit one? Did they not have time to align the switch before the Amtrak train arrived?

Now we have two more important witnesses on hand that will definitely help with the investigation.

The dispatcher would not have issued an EC1 allowing AMT91 through the entire signal suspension without the freight conductor telling him the switch was lined and locked normal.

Railjunkie wrote:The dispatcher would not have issued an EC1 allowing AMT91 through the entire signal suspension without the freight conductor telling him the switch was lined and locked normal.

that ''would" is a "should ", until we know what actually happened.

Railjunkie wrote:The dispatcher would not have issued an EC1 allowing AMT91 through the entire signal suspension without the freight conductor telling him the switch was lined and locked normal.

I'm still waiting for details from the earlier report that "the conductor on site" verified the switch position to the dispatcher before the train was permitted to proceed. We know that the conductor of the train in the siding was on the engine at the time of the collision. Was there another conductor positioned at the switch who was expected to normal the switch to the main line and lock it after the CSX train backed into the siding? Why was the engineer off of the train?

David Benton wrote:

Railjunkie wrote:The dispatcher would not have issued an EC1 allowing AMT91 through the entire signal suspension without the freight conductor telling him the switch was lined and locked normal.

that ''would" is a "should ", until we know what actually happened.

well the NTSB pretty much stated that no mistake was made by dispatcher and Amtrak crew in video's on NTSB.gov.

DutchRailnut wrote: well the NTSB pretty much stated that no mistake was made by dispatcher and Amtrak crew in video's on NTSB.gov.

That's why I'm patient to wait for the final NTSB hearing...

Preliminary report released:

https://ntsb.gov/investigations/Acciden ... relim.aspx" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

the report states pretty much what second video showed, but still no word on where CSX crew was , who cleared switch, who reported it to Dispatcher , the report tells us absolutely nothing new.