Amtrak 91 - CSX Collision Cayce, SC - 2/4/18

dgvrengineer wrote:The front of Amtrak 47 looks real bad. Hope the engine crew is ok.

I was just thinking that.it looks sheer cut in half. Prayers for the crew and passengers

The last Amtrak Tracker speed shown is 32mph.

Amtrak train #91 southbound from NY to Miami collided with a freight train on the CSX Columbia sub in /near Cayce S.C. early Sunday morning.
News reports say that 2 persons have died, with more than 50 injured.
From the vid I saw on CNN it looks like the accident occurred just south of the Charleston Hwy bridge.
Here is a link to the CNN story.
https://www.cnn.com/2018/02/04/us/amtra ... index.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Sorry if this post seems a bit irrelevant; I hadn't found the main thread when I posted this in its own thread. It was later moved to this thread.

Below is an image at the scene looking south. The track leading off to the left serves a local industry. You can click on the image to enlarge it. The Amtrak train was apparently leaving single track with the freight holding.

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I'd be really curious how this sort of accident still ends up happening in 2018.

Gilbert B Norman wrote: Coming from the air transport industry, within which there has not been a passenger fatality on a US flagged carrier since 2009 (Colgan Air BUF), not any on US soil since '13 (Asiana - Korean flagged - SFO), and none worldwide during '17, Mr. Anderson must wonder "what kind of demo derby did I sign up for?"

It's pretty obvious. The bigger question is - why does the FRA not give a crap?

Any airline with Amtrak's 'safety' record, would have been grounded long ago.

I just wanted to explain my comment, "the freight was apparently holding." That was based on listening to a rail industry 'talking head' on ABC-News. He said, given the location and the impact damage -- the way the two trains reacted to the impact -- his immediate impression was that the freight was stationary, possibly waiting for the Amtrak train to clear so the CSX freight could then proceed north onto the single-track (which is visible in the upper right of the satellite photo I attached to the earlier post). That would be, of course, the normal procedure, with 91 The Silver Star departing Columbia S.C., the next station to the north (about 4 or 5 miles away from the crash site) and then heading south on the single-track. A northbound freight would be held at Cayce for the passage of Amtrak. Obviously this morning something went wrong.

Trinnau wrote:

MCL1981 wrote:Based on the video and images from the scene, this two opposing trains hitting head-on on the same track! That's not supposed to happen! Both trains clearly on that inside track. The only saving grace here if they must not have been moving too fast.

My thoughts and prayers to all involved. Hate to see this in the industry.

The damage to the entire length of the top of the CSX locomotive tells me otherwise. The Amtrak loco climbed up and on top of the CSX loco - need a pretty sizeable force to lift a 135-ton locomotive like that. The accordion action further back in the train is another indicator of force released laterally. Based on a look at a Google satellite of the area, lack of derailed autoracks and the end of siding just around the corner, my guess is the CSX train was stopped and possibly (hopefully) empty (access road is a good place to get a cab in).

I don't see any obvious signals at this location, is it just non-controlled side track? I can't tell if the switches are power switches or back savers, but the derail on the side track does not look like a power derail. The next siding to the northeast has signals (can see the shadow and they are visible from the crossing on street view).

I'll speculate the switch was lined the wrong way, sending Amtrak down the siding at speed and into the CSX train. Now why that happened will be the crux of the matter.

Your assessment may be right. The freight train does not appear to have derailed, which could potentially indicate that it was stopped. If the CSX unit was occupied there might have been additional fatalities (I'm assuming the 2 killed were the Amtrak crew based on the damage to 47).

I wonder how fast the Amtrak was going. That doesn't look like a 32mph collision to me. The P42s cab was crushed and the frame was bent. A lot of force is needed to do that, and lift it over the CSX unit.

I think you're right. The lack of derailment of the freight train would generally indicate it was not moving.

Trinnau wrote:

The damage to the entire length of the top of the CSX locomotive tells me otherwise. The Amtrak loco climbed up and on top of the CSX loco - need a pretty sizeable force to lift a 135-ton locomotive like that. .

The damage is so severe & imagery limited; is that one locomotive on the freight, or 2?

Never mind, the front page of the NYT has a better angle:

https://www.nytimes.com/2018/02/04/us/a ... ctionfront

I'm now hearing that the CSX train was indeed stopped and that both fatalities were Amtrak crew members. I also saw an aerial image showing an Amfleet car bent in half further down the train.

farecard wrote:

Trinnau wrote:

The damage to the entire length of the top of the CSX locomotive tells me otherwise. The Amtrak loco climbed up and on top of the CSX loco - need a pretty sizeable force to lift a 135-ton locomotive like that. .

The damage is so severe & imagery limited; is that one locomotive on the freight, or 2?

2 locomotives, both appear to be AC4400CWs.

For what it's worth, I agree that the switch seems to be the focal point for the accident investigators. However, to the points made that PTC would have prevented this one are just wrong. Assuming the loco rolled over a transponder, got its TSR and applied full braking, both trains had no chance. Even if it was traveling at only 32 MPH (which several folks question), the time to hit the brakes once the train went through the switch and moved to the siding was so slight that it would not have mattered much. Add that the crash location's track has curvature so it couldn't see the freight from afar, it being 2:38 AM, and that #47 could have been traveling faster than 32 MPH all adds up to disaster. So no, PTC would not have mattered.

However, one point to note is how fast it was really traveling...because if it hit that switch at higher speed, I'm surprised the whole train didn't derail.

The questions should be about how that switch is actuated (manual or remote), whether it was manually locked out (obviously not) or whether a sensor failed and dispatch didn't realize the switch hadn't moved. Or someone simply didn't move the switch at all...

Tommy Meehan wrote:It's signaled track so it is hard to understand how this could happen. Two fatalities, looks like the lead CSX freight unit took a severe impact.

Easy, someone missed a signal or signal malfunction.

Nasadowsk wrote:

Gilbert B Norman wrote: Coming from the air transport industry, within which there has not been a passenger fatality on a US flagged carrier since 2009 (Colgan Air BUF), not any on US soil since '13 (Asiana - Korean flagged - SFO), and none worldwide during '17, Mr. Anderson must wonder "what kind of demo derby did I sign up for?"

It's pretty obvious. The bigger question is - why does the FRA not give a crap?

Any airline with Amtrak's 'safety' record, would have been grounded long ago.

Amtrak was operating a train which was not generating profitability and now legal expenses have to be paid as well as damage to the equipment. The accidents are happening way too frequently across the system. They are still playing catchup in New York City fixing outdated infrastructure.

It seems more than likely more crashes will continue to occur unless major changes are made.

adamj023 wrote:

Nasadowsk wrote:

Gilbert B Norman wrote: Coming from the air transport industry, within which there has not been a passenger fatality on a US flagged carrier since 2009 (Colgan Air BUF), not any on US soil since '13 (Asiana - Korean flagged - SFO), and none worldwide during '17, Mr. Anderson must wonder "what kind of demo derby did I sign up for?"

It's pretty obvious. The bigger question is - why does the FRA not give a crap?

Any airline with Amtrak's 'safety' record, would have been grounded long ago.

Amtrak was operating a train which was not generating profitability and now legal expenses have to be paid as well as damage to the equipment. The accidents are happening way too frequently across the system. They are still playing catchup in New York City fixing outdated infrastructure.

It seems more than likely more crashes will continue to occur unless major changes are made.

Amtrak's had what, 11 passenger deaths since Bourbonnais in 1999? Every death is a tragedy, but I wouldn't go so far as to say there's a major problem. The Cascades and Northeast Regional wrecks are undeniably Amtrak's fault. The GOP charter crash is not; it's a grade-crossing accident on CSX territory, currently leased to the Buckingham Branch. We have no idea what caused this accident. Three unrelated incidents in two months amount to statistical noise.