ALP-45DP's - Usage and Delivery

amtrakhogger wrote:

nick11a wrote:Let's not argue over tangability. It's not at the MMC.... apparently, it is at a Bombardier.... at least one of their locations.

I was being sarcastic. Let's face it, what will NJT do with this new fleet of locomotives when they are finally delivered? The primary reason for the purchase is now history (the ARC tunnel.) Other than maybe few runs to Bay Head or the remote possibility of a trip to Raritan, I can envision about 10-12 of theses units stored outside the MMC for years because NJT will have no use for them.

Why would they be stored? Why would NJT have no use for them?

NJT will use them to run trains just like they do with their other locomotives. Sure, on some of their runs the might never make use of their ability to operate in electric mode. Still, running a train from Hoboken to Hackettstown or Bay Head with an ALP-45 represents a significant fuel savings as opposed to doing it with a straight diesel. Let's not forget that there is also the possibility of one seat rides for several markets which don't receive them yet.

cruiser939 wrote: Let's not forget that there is also the possibility of one seat rides for several markets which don't receive them yet.

If this happens, they better be express trains from Bay Head/Worm Territory/Hackettstown. I can't imagine anyone wanting to take a train that makes 20 stops on its way to NYC.

morris&essex4ever wrote:

cruiser939 wrote: Let's not forget that there is also the possibility of one seat rides for several markets which don't receive them yet.

If this happens, they better be express trains from Bay Head/Worm Territory/Hackettstown. I can't imagine anyone wanting to take a train that makes 20 stops on its way to NYC.

Thank you for sharing your service planning expertise with us...

ns3010 wrote: Jt, just curious, why are you so skeptical about the Caterpillar engines? I am not trying to impugn your lack of faith, I am just wondering if there is a specific reason for it, or if it is just your gut feeling.

Very good question - and I hope I am wrong, but I don't know if Im going to be......

Obviously Caterpillar can build very good diesel engines for industry, their machines are all over the place and last for years. However, thats not railroading. railroading has specific demands on engines, and history has shown that putting "non railroad" type engines in locomotives tends to be a failure over the course of time. Also, there have been several differnet experiments with Caterpillar engines (MK5000C comes to mind), and while some might say the MK5000C was ahead of its time, there was major problems with the diesel engine and the main generator, and in the end, they were taken out and replaced by EMD products, and basically are now SD50s.

NJT has used Caterpillar for its HEP engines on the Geeps for years. They work well. However, they have 2 speeds. (well, 3 - off, idle and run). They aren't constantly revving up and down. They will run for days, no problems at all whatsoever

the MP20 switchers, with Caterpillar engines, have proven themselves to very interesting..........They have had some issues mechanically, and aren't exactly real reliable, mostly with the turbos as well as starting up.

these things are going to be constantly running at full tilt, then going to idle, then back to full tilt then various throttle positions. they are also going to be very loud. The switchers are VERY loud (and sound pretty cool) when they are under a very heavy load, and they only have 1 engine! These things are going to have 2! They are going to be subject to a lot of stress, and it will be interesting to see how long they run reliably, and if they don't shake themselves apart.....

Gensets have not taken off in the industy and one was to wonder how many would actually be sold without gov't clean air grants, requirements, etc. And this engine is basically an overgrown genset.

Should be very very interesting. I hope they work great, but we will see............one thing going for them is Bombardier is buiding them with a lot of parts from the '46, so electric mode should be fine, as for diesel mode, well thats gonna be the question......

Jtgshu wrote:
these things are going to be constantly running at full tilt, then going to idle, then back to full tilt then various throttle positions. they are also going to be very loud. The switchers are VERY loud (and sound pretty cool) when they are under a very heavy load, and they only have 1 engine! These things are going to have 2! They are going to be subject to a lot of stress, and it will be interesting to see how long they run reliably, and if they don't shake themselves apart.....

Should be very very interesting. I hope they work great, but we will see.

Yup, I must admit, I'm looking forward to hearing these things to.! We shall see what happens.

Jt, very good and well thought out answer. I understand what you are saying, and it makes a lot of sense, and is definitely a possibility.

Does anyone know how the Progress Rail PR43C's are doing on NS? They are a high powered genset that utilizes Caterpillar prime movers, just like the DP will. I don't know if they are the same model engine (I doubt it, because the ones in the PR are 3600 and 700 hp, but it is always possible that the larger one is the same as the DP). Even if they are not, in theory, they should act similar for the most part.
The only thing is that a freight locomotive is more likely to be running at a more constant speed than a locomotive in commuter service. Like Jt said, it would not be subject to the same fluctuation in throttle position that a commuter locomotive. So even if the PR43C's are relatively successful, the DP's could be completely different.

We will just have to see. Hopefully Jt will be proven wrong but there is a decent chance that he will be right.
Luckily, we won't have to wait too much longer to find out, and this guessing game will be over once and for all.

I have a feeling these locomotives will run better than anyone's expectations, and may become a favorite among the riding public & NJT. Can't explain it, but just have a feeling.

HBLR wrote:I have a feeling these locomotives will run better than anyone's expectations, and may become a favorite among the riding public & NJT. Can't explain it, but just have a feeling.

This man hasn't been around the business long enough to have that healthy dose of skepticism....lol

cobra30689 wrote:

HBLR wrote:I have a feeling these locomotives will run better than anyone's expectations, and may become a favorite among the riding public & NJT. Can't explain it, but just have a feeling.

This man hasn't been around the business long enough to have that healthy dose of skepticism....lol

HAHAHAH and you haven't been in it long enough to be that skeptical either cobra...........well on second thought, yea, you have, even more so than others....hahahhaha

Hope things are good down that way and I guess you got a few move ups huh?

HBLR wrote:I have a feeling these locomotives will run better than anyone's expectations, and may become a favorite among the riding public & NJT. Can't explain it, but just have a feeling.

Obviously,' you've never worked witH/on any dual-mode equipment...

All examples...from the FL-9...to the P32's....and the LIRR DM's were problematic right out of the box...

SS

morris&essex4ever wrote:

cruiser939 wrote: Let's not forget that there is also the possibility of one seat rides for several markets which don't receive them yet.

If this happens, they better be express trains from Bay Head/Worm Territory/Hackettstown. I can't imagine anyone wanting to take a train that makes 20 stops on its way to NYC.

What kind of statement is that? How would it be different from the service now, except that you aren't changing trains?

ryanov wrote:

morris&essex4ever wrote:

cruiser939 wrote: Let's not forget that there is also the possibility of one seat rides for several markets which don't receive them yet.

If this happens, they better be express trains from Bay Head/Worm Territory/Hackettstown. I can't imagine anyone wanting to take a train that makes 20 stops on its way to NYC.

What kind of statement is that? How would it be different from the service now, except that you aren't changing trains?

I was thinking the same thing but was to lazy to post it. But since I'm here...

I just had a thought...

With the way things are with the budget and cuts being made everywhere left and right, my guess is that when the ALP45D's arrive, there won't be too much pomp and pageant over them. Articles on the use of public funds are not usually done in good light these days.

I don't know if anyone else has mentioned this, but service on the Boonton Line west of Montclair could be reinvigorated with the dual modes.

Presently, many riders are forced to transfer at MSU to continue their commutes to points east due to a limitation set on diesel operations through the Montclair Connection. With the dual modes, the transfers could be eliminated, the "noise problem" could be eliminated, and Midtown Direct service could finally be offered to towns such as Little Falls, Wayne, Mountain View, Lincoln Park, Montville, Boonton, and Mountain Lakes.

If the locomotives operate as they're supposed to, it could make the Boonton Line a much more useful (and well patronized) rail line again.

That would make perfect sense and your post has a lot of truth ito it, however a few employees keep saying in here that Amtrak would have to certify the ALP45DP's for the current tunnels. AFAIK, that is unlikely to happen anytime soon unless these "beasts" run flawless out the gate.