All Things WMATA 7000 Series

Breda hardly has any significant US prescence these days, aside from their MBTA project.

The only major presence they have besides the MBTA and LA projects that have gone bad is the Buffalo, NY LRV rehab project. From what I know, that project in my hometown is currently on-time and on-budget. However, I have yet to see or ride a rehabbed car which were to be running earlier this spring. That is an extsensive rehab with new signalling systems, cab controls, new exterior/interior destination signage, automated announcement system and rebuilding of HVAC and propulsion. Sadly they will keep the old Westinghouse DC chopper motors rather than switch them out, which I think is a mistake.

Breda was supposed to do a rehab for the Miami Metrorail also but that plan was scrapped since that organization is now looking to do an outright replacement of the Budd fleet built in the early-mid 1980's. Their thinking is since they will need to do a major expansion of the fleet with the new lines being added, it would be better to run common equipment instead of different fleets.

tommyboy6181 wrote: The only major presence they have besides the MBTA and LA projects that have gone bad is the Buffalo, NY LRV rehab project. From what I know, that project in my hometown is currently on-time and on-budget. However, I have yet to see or ride a rehabbed car which were to be running earlier this spring. That is an extsensive rehab with new signalling systems, cab controls, new exterior/interior destination signage, automated announcement system and rebuilding of HVAC and propulsion. Sadly they will keep the old Westinghouse DC chopper motors rather than switch them out, which I think is a mistake.

Moreover, although I don't want to defend Breda too much, the major problem with the MBTA type 8 LRVs is that upon initial deployment they derailed a lot. I tend to think that this was not completely Breda's fault. The type 8 was the MBTA's first low floor LRV and the first rail vehicle of any type for the MBTA to use stub axles (on the center trucks). No matter how well-constructed, the center trucks of low-floor LRVs don't stay in gauge as rigidly as traditional solid-axle trucks. Parts of the MBTA system over which LRVs operate involves curve profiles that are pretty much at the limit of what is feasible for safe use with LRVs. Although some modifications were made to the type 8 in order to help solve the derailing problem (I believe this consisted mostly of changes to wheel profile and maybe also some suspension modifications) some of the changes that had to be made were to the rails themselves - in some cases where the quality of rail was questionable it was improved, and also some rail was re-ground using a new profile to help trains steer better.

It looks like the board approved the procurement of the 7000 series cars. Now it will just remain to be seen who will actually get the contract to build them. It also looks like there are some options to bring it closer to a 900+ car order.

http://www.wmata.com/board_gm/board_doc ... Series.pdf

so are they still planning to rehab the 4000s?

Fan Railer wrote:so are they still planning to rehab the 4000s?

Not likely before they start delivery of the 4000's.

Actually realtype you mean the delivery of the 7000s, not 4000s....

"Fan Railer"
so are they still planning to rehab the 4000s?

Yes.

The schedule for the rehabilitation of the 4k coincides with production delivery schedule of the 7k cars.

The 4k car rehabilitation is scheduled to begin after the first 128 of the 7k cars have been delivered.

See page 11 of 7000 Series Railcar Procurement (1.06 MB PDF file)

Note:
* When reading the schedule linked above understand that the WMATA Fiscal Year begins on July 1.
* The procurement schedule has been expedited. The beginning of the award to prototype delivery shown in the schedule linked above will be roughly 12 months earlier.

Someone mentioned the test track associated with the commissioning facility. An RAC presentation shows the footprint for the facility at Greenbelt Yard, but doesn't talk about the test track: http://www.wmata.com/about/rac/racdocs/ ... 202008.pdf (see last page).

In this thread it was said that the test track would run from Greenbelt Yard 12,000' to Paint Branch Parkway (almost to College Park Metro). I haven't been able to find any information on this, but I'm curious. Since the test track will be on the west side of the inbound track, how will it clear the MARC station at Greenbelt? Will the project require the moving of the CSX Mainline and MARC station or what?

Thanks.

"Matt'"
Someone mentioned the test track associated with the commissioning facility. An RAC presentation shows the footprint for the facility at Greenbelt Yard, but doesn't talk about the test track: http://www.wmata.com/about/rac/racdocs/ ... 202008.pdf (see last page).

In this thread it was said that the test track would run from Greenbelt Yard 12,000' to Paint Branch Parkway (almost to College Park Metro). I haven't been able to find any information on this, but I'm curious. Since the test track will be on the west side of the inbound track, how will it clear the MARC station at Greenbelt? Will the project require the moving of the CSX Mainline and MARC station or what?

There is plenty of room between southbound metrorail track E2 and the and the Greenbelt MARC platform. As I recall the distance between the outside of the wall of the ramp up to the MARC platform and the WMATA security fence is around 10'. The distance from the centerline of a track to the security fence is around 16'. WMATA has a sound wall inside the security fence adjacent to MARC platform. Minimum track centers on metrorail are 14', here is a shot from a similar angle near the Cheverly station where track centers are 14'.

Here is some updated information including specs and drawings regarding the new 7000 series cars and the 4k rehabs.

http://www.wmata.com/business/procureme ... on_id=2382

The interesting thing is that even though the new quad-car A-B-B-A consists were confirmed for the 7k a while back, it will now be used on the 4k rehabs as well. As a result, the B cars in the 4k will see cabs removed to increase seating by 4. Also, the 4k rehabs WILL be compatible with the 7k as all the systems on both series of cars are going to be identical. Now, even though the 1-6k series cars will not be compatible, they will be able to couple together in case a train has to be moved. B cars on both the 4k and 7k will use hostler controls (similar to BART) to allow a train to move in the event it is needed.

Another thing that is currently being tested on some of the cars is the LED lighting for the interior (gives it the bluish look). This will be standard on the 4/7k once completed.

1 other thing that is new is the inclusion of articulated gangways as a priced option. If implemented, people could move throughout 4 cars without having to exit the train.

At any rate, we should know the bidder by sometime this summer as technical proposals are due in March.

tommyboy6181 wrote:Here is some updated information including specs and drawings regarding the new 7000 series cars and the 4k rehabs.

http://www.wmata.com/business/procureme ... on_id=2382

The interesting thing is that even though the new quad-car A-B-B-A consists were confirmed for the 7k a while back, it will now be used on the 4k rehabs as well. As a result, the B cars in the 4k will see cabs removed to increase seating by 4. Also, the 4k rehabs WILL be compatible with the 7k as all the systems on both series of cars are going to be identical. Now, even though the 1-6k series cars will not be compatible, they will be able to couple together in case a train has to be moved. B cars on both the 4k and 7k will use hostler controls (similar to BART) to allow a train to move in the event it is needed.

Another thing that is currently being tested on some of the cars is the LED lighting for the interior (gives it the bluish look). This will be standard on the 4/7k once completed.

1 other thing that is new is the inclusion of articulated gangways as a priced option. If implemented, people could move throughout 4 cars without having to exit the train.

At any rate, we should know the bidder by sometime this summer as technical proposals are due in March.

Thanks for posting this. While I do agree that the 7K's should be a different design than the current 70's era design, I still don't see why they're going to be married in 4 car sets. This limits the versatility and practicality of the cars (1 dead car in the set, all four cars taken out of service), just for 4 seats per car. I don't think it's worth it at all. IMHO the 4k rehab plans seem very impractical. Not only will it cost much more to rehab the 4K's, they will no longer be compatible with the other cars of the same design. And I don't see how they can even be compatible with the newer design, which doesn't even resemble the current one, unless they basically rebuild the cars from scratch. I can't think of any rail system in the country heavy rail or even commuter rail that MU's cars of distincly different designs together.

As far as I can tell, one dead car in a set wouldn't require that the entire set be taken out of service unless WMATA has them built with the articulated gangways and no way to seal a car off. After all, Metro has in the past run trains with a car out of service.

With that said, I can't comment much about the technical design of the cars. My major concern (still) is that whoever came up with the aesthetics for the cars needs to be tased, bound, and shipped off to Djibouti as the R-160-wannabe exterior and crayon-scribble interior are bland, sterile, and ugly. I'm hoping that the horrible seat design is just a holdover from the initial press release showing off the 7000s, but I'm a bit curious about this as WMATA already changed that horrible "America's Metro" logo nonsense.

Anyway, I don't understand either the cost savings or aesthetic appeal in removing the brown stripe and using one of those child's scribble fabric patterns for the interior, and I hope that the WMATA didn't waste an excessive amount paying the fool who came up with this horrid design.

Thanks for posting the link to the Technical Specs. As I suspected when I heard these cars would not be trainline compatible with the existing fleet, WMATA has decided to get rid of the five-step brake trainline scheme, which ( in my opinon) is the reason ATO stops and stopping locations have always been so inconsistent. They are now calling for a continuously variable brake command ( P-wire or equivalent), which will allow much better, highly consistent ATO stops. The incompatibility is well worth it to get decent ATO brake control.

Pete Schmidt

And I don't see how they can even be compatible with the newer design, which doesn't even resemble the current one, unless they basically rebuild the cars from scratch.

Thats basically what will happen for the 4k rehabs. They would be stripped down to almost nothing and completely redone. From what the specs are calling for, they would now be in quad-car consists and will have all systems replaced to match the 7k (propulsion, HVAC, cab/hostler controls, lighting, LED destination signage, strip maps, etc). Also a difference between the 2/3k rehab and the 4k is that they will not rebuild the trucks...they will be completely replaced with the same trucks/wheels/motor arrangement that the 7k will use. The cab ends would be cleaned and redone to look more similar to the 7k. The seating would remain the same as the current layout (B-cars will simply add 4 seats where the cabs will be removed).

Now even though the 2/3k rehab was extensive, it seems like the 4k will be much more involved. That brings up an interesting question. Would it be more feasible to just add 100 cars to the 7k order as compared to rebuilding the 4k to match the 7k? My initial feeling is that it would be more cost effective to do a rebuild on the 4k that is similar to the 2/3k using the same systems and then just add the rolling stock on the 7/8k orders.