All Things WMATA 7000 Series

The proposal due date for vendors building the new cars has been moved back to June 19, 2009, instead of May 29, 2009. The link below provides some updated information on the new cars.

http://www.wmata.com/business/procureme ... on_id=2382

Interesting thing is that in Site Tour Package section within, Kawasaki and its suppliers had the largest presence. I've never seen Kawasaki this interested in any WMATA contract before. Breda had the next biggest group after Kawasaki with its suppliers (AnsaldoBreda, Ansaldo STS) Bombardier and Hyundai Rotem both stepped up their presence and sent large groups respectively. Also, for some reason, Nippon Sharyo had a good presence. Not sure if they want to use this contract to break into the North American heavy rail market.

My guess from the most recent information is that it will come down to Alstom, Breda, Bombardier, and Kawasaki in the end. It would be nice to see Kawasaki get the nod however to see what they can do. I wouldn't mind seeing Bombardier either.

Thanks for the links. Very interesting guest list. Alstom had a pretty large group and sent some guys all the way from France, and New York. Kawasaki is desperate for a contract after to losing to Hyundai-Rotem for MBTA (Boston) and SEPTA (contracts). Right now they're only getting love from New York (NYCT, Metro-North, PATH). After sifting through all 22 pages here are the major players (not including suppliers):

-Kinki Sharyo
-Hyundai Rotem (bleh!)
-Nippon Sharyo, and their partner for the MARC II cars:
-Sumitomo
-CAF (just one guy)
-Bombardier
-Wabtec
-Alstom
-Kawasaki
-AnsaldoBreda
-Booz Allen Hamilton (huh!?!)

I think Kawasaki should get the contract. If not, then Alstom.

Here is the updated list that shows who took part in the site visit: http://www.wmata.com/business/procureme ... ackage.pdf

This is the list I was referring to where Alstom did not send a representative but Kawasaki, Breda, Bombardier and Hyundai Rotem went ahead and sent everyone.

BAH (Booze Allen Hamilton) provides project management for WMATA and provided services on the Breda Rehab and Alstom car projects.

Today is deadline day for proposals on the 7k cars. The next several weeks ought to be interesting in finally finding out who will get this contract.

Random question that is a little off topic. On the Metro Wikipedia page, there are now motor specs for the CAF (BBD Mitrac) and Breda pre-rehab (Westinghouse) cars. Anyone know the HP ratings for the Alstom ONIX or the GE motors used? Also, is there an actual model name for the GE motors?

Apparently, here is the first supposed "insider" report which I consider a case of bad reporting. The Railway Insider has announced that Alstom has been selected for the 7000 series project.

http://rinsider.clubferoviar.ro/en/afis ... hp?id=2657

However, I take this with a grain of salt as there are inaccuracies in the article.

Washington Metropolitan Area Transportation Authority intends to order 748 underground units, and rehabilitate the 100 existing units. Such a contract is estimated at $ 2 billion (EUR 1.6 Billion), and tender procedures will be initiated in December 2008. This initiative is added to a previous order including the supply of 184 units of the 7000-series delivered by Alstom, the purpose of both transactions being to replace the old 300 units manufactured by Rohr Industries in 1976 when the underground in Washington was launched.

This is the first inaccuracy in the article as that we all know the 184 cars delivered are the Alstom 6000 series. The 7000 series was only in the early planning stages at that point.

Among the European manufacturers which provided trains for the vehicle fleet of the underground in Washington, there is CAF (5000 class vehicles), Breda Costruzioni Ferroviarie, presently called AnsaldoBreda, (2000, 3000, 4000 classes) and Alstom (6000 and 7000 classes).

Here is the second inaccuracy as again, Alstom had not been selected to build the 7k cars yet. Also at this time, bids were only in the preliminary stages.

Now, I would not be surprised if in fact Alstom does get the project based on their recent projects and partnering with Metro. They have done a ton of work with them over the entire time the system has been in operation (signalling, train control systems, 2/3k rehabs, 6k cars). However, I would still not count out the other companies just yet. After all, Bombardier, Kawasaki, Breda, and the other manufacturers do offer good alternatives (except Hyundai Rotem in my opinion).

tommyboy6181 wrote:...Bombardier, Kawasaki, Breda, and the other manufacturers do offer good alternatives (except Hyundai Rotem in my opinion).

We already have Alstoms, I would love to see Kawasakis or maybe Bombardiers. Does anyone at all like Hyundai-Rotem?

"tommyboy6181"
They have done a ton of work with them over the entire time the system has been in operation (signalling, train control systems, 2/3k rehabs, 6k cars).

A little FYI; The train control and signaling system contract was originally awarded to General Railway Signal (GRS). GRS became a part of Alstom in 1998.

A little FYI; The train control and signaling system contract was originally awarded to General Railway Signal (GRS). GRS became a part of Alstom in 1998.

That is probably why Alstom has been contracted for the recent extensions and relay replacement project. Thanks for the clarification.

tommyboy6181 wrote:Random question that is a little off topic. On the Metro Wikipedia page, there are now motor specs for the CAF (BBD Mitrac) and Breda pre-rehab (Westinghouse) cars. Anyone know the HP ratings for the Alstom ONIX or the GE motors used? Also, is there an actual model name for the GE motors?

The only reason the motor specs for those cars are on wikipedia is because i found them on the web one day when i was bored. i tried to look for the other specs but : GE: too old and their website sucks, Alstom's website doesn't have ANY info or spec PDF's and it also sucks.

"Fan Railer"
The only reason the motor specs for those cars are on wikipedia is because i found them on the web one day when i was bored. i tried to look for the other specs but : GE: too old and their website sucks, Alstom's website doesn't have ANY info or spec PDF's and it also sucks.

I don't think the traction motor horsepower specs you have quoted on wikipedia for the 4000 and the 5000 series cars are correct. The 1000 series cars as originally built had 125 horsepower traction motor. The specs you have for 4000 and 5000 series cars are more the 2/3 greater then the horsepower of the originally built 1000 series cars.

Did you check the reference sheets i posted as citations? check those and if there is any discrepancy, feel free to fix it.

"Fan Railer"
Did you check the reference sheets i posted as citations? check those and if there is any discrepancy, feel free to fix it.

I stand corrected. I find it odd that WMATA chose to increase horsepower of the cars that much and not use it. This explains why WMATA has been upgrading the power output of their traction power substations.

Sand Box John wrote:"Fan Railer"
Did you check the reference sheets i posted as citations? check those and if there is any discrepancy, feel free to fix it.

I stand corrected. I find it odd that WMATA chose to increase horsepower of the cars that much and not use it. This explains why WMATA has been upgrading the power output of their traction power substations.

I agree with you. as another reference, all of BART's cars are powered by 150 hp traction motors, but it seems that they have an equal performance (if not better) than WMATA's cars, but it could be because of two reasons: either the gear ratios are different, or it's because BART's car bodies are mostly alluminum and weigh around 60,000 lbs.

but arent WMATA's cars also aluminum? or do the newer cars (not 1000 series) have more steel to prevent telescoping in crashes? and are thus heavier...
as you said, the 1000 series cars originally came with 125 hp motors.

"Fan Railer"
I agree with you. as another reference, all of BART's cars are powered by 150 hp traction motors, but it seems that they have an equal performance (if not better) than WMATA's cars, but it could be because of two reasons: either the gear ratios are different, or it's because BART's car bodies are mostly alluminum and weigh around 60,000 lbs.

I think you are right about the gearing, trains on that railroad had at one time an advertised top speed of 85 MPH. The as built 1k cars had an advertised top speed of 75 MPH.

but arent WMATA's cars also aluminum?

Yes, and they are 5' longer and weigh roughly 11,800 lb more.

or do the newer cars (not 1000 series) have more steel to prevent telescoping in crashes? and are thus heavier...
as you said, the 1000 series cars originally came with 125 hp motors.

The 5 and 6k cars have center cell beam made of corten steel, the 1k cars do not have center cell beams.

The primary reason I think the 1k cars are so susceptible telescoping is because of how the combined anticlimber truck bolster frame is fasten to the car body and floor frame. On impact that fastening point fails and folds upwards causing the car body to detach from the sides of the anticlimber truck bolster frame. See car frame detail in figure 6 on page 17 in the NTSB Woodley Park-Zoo Wreck Report (2.91 MB PDF file).

Here is a sneak preview. If for some insane reason that Metro goes with Hyundai-Rotem, this is the AC propulsion we can be expecting from Mitsubishi Electric.

Acceleration: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RRK5fL2C ... re=related

Deceleration: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kVHk4J3t ... re=related

Interior ride: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5O95FK4cUJY