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All things Pennsylvanian AND Keystone West

Discussion related to Amtrak also known as the National Railroad Passenger Corp.

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Re: All things Pennsylvanian AND Keystone West

  by NortheastTrainMan
 
west point wrote: ↑Mon Jan 15, 2024 9:40 pm What is very interesting is that even though some tracks have been removed the CAT over those tracks has been left in place.
Same, is it possible PECO utilizes the catenary for anything? At least according to @glennk419 in the "ELECTRIC POWER BETWEEN HARRISBURG AND PHILADELPHIA" thread, he mentioned the following:

"PRR60 is absolutely correct. The lines above the abandoned PRR ROW along the Schuylkill River, now part of the Valley Forge bike trail from Norristown to Manayunk, are very much alive. If you drive under them on I-476 with your car radio tuned to AM, you will actually pick up hum from the wires. Along the ex-Trenton cutoff, wires have been restrung from Fort Washington east but these lines belong to PECO and serve substations in Willow Grove and Bucks County."

The thread in question, Glenn's reply is on Page 2: electric-power-between-harrisburg-and-p ... 86-15.html

Now, I know we're talking about two different lines here. However, given the possibility of PECO using catenary over there, it's possible they might use it on the Keystone Corridor. I'm not sure how far they go though, since PECO is Philly based. If anyone could verify or debunk this, we'd appreciate it.

Re: All things Pennsylvanian AND Keystone West

  by NortheastTrainMan
 
I mentioned when I was railfanning at Lancaster the other day, that there "might" be an Easter Egg in the video.
Well, there was. Pennsylvanian 43 had PRR No. 7503 "Francis L. Suter" on the rear.

My YouTube Video: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3pAiWzzrM3g

I noticed a funny shaped (as in not shaped like Amtrak's rolling stock) car was on the rear of 43. I asked the conductor if it was a private car & he confirmed it. Once 43 rolled out of the station, I made sure to get a good look, and it was a classic PRR piece of history. After getting home, I looked up that car's history. Not only was it an actual (as in, not from another railroad & repainted) PRR car, IT IS OVER 100 YEARS OLD. It was a nice treat to see a piece of history on its home rails. I mean, of course it would be better than the windy weather that almost knocked me over.

I also saw that Strasburg Railroad Railfan on YouTube saw the railcar, farther west in Harrisburg:


Small world. Small Pennsylvanian World.

Re: All things Pennsylvanian AND Keystone West

  by west point
 
NortheastTrainMan wrote: ↑Tue Jan 16, 2024 6:30 pm

Same, is it possible PECO utilizes the catenary for anything? At least according to @glennk419 in the "ELECTRIC POWER BETWEEN HARRISBURG AND PHILADELPHIA" thread, he mentioned the following:

"PRR60 is absolutely correct. The lines above the abandoned PRR ROW along the Schuylkill River, now part of the Valley Forge bike trail from Norristown to Manayunk, are very much alive. If you drive under them on I-476 with your car radio tuned to AM, you will actually pick up hum from the wires. Along the ex-Trenton cutoff, wires have been restrung from Fort Washington east but these lines belong to PECO and serve substations in Willow Grove and Bucks County."

The thread in question, Glenn's reply is on Page 2: electric-power-between-harrisburg-and-p ... 86-15.html

Now, I know we're talking about two different lines here. However, given the possibility of PECO using catenary over there, it's possible they might use it on the Keystone Corridor. I'm not sure how far they go though, since PECO is Philly based. If anyone could verify or debunk this, we'd appreciate it.
What you are seeing is the 169 kV 25 hZ feeder lines. s I understand it the ROW is still owned by Amtrak who had the high voltage lines rebuilt from Safe Harbor several years ago/ It really gets complicated where in places tracks are NS but power lines are Amtrak and in a few Pepco 3 phase is on top of Amtrak much like some of the NEC.ROW.

Re: All things Pennsylvanian AND Keystone West

  by TheOneKEA
 
west point wrote: ↑Wed Jan 17, 2024 2:39 am
NortheastTrainMan wrote: ↑Tue Jan 16, 2024 6:30 pm

Same, is it possible PECO utilizes the catenary for anything? At least according to @glennk419 in the "ELECTRIC POWER BETWEEN HARRISBURG AND PHILADELPHIA" thread, he mentioned the following:

"PRR60 is absolutely correct. The lines above the abandoned PRR ROW along the Schuylkill River, now part of the Valley Forge bike trail from Norristown to Manayunk, are very much alive. If you drive under them on I-476 with your car radio tuned to AM, you will actually pick up hum from the wires. Along the ex-Trenton cutoff, wires have been restrung from Fort Washington east but these lines belong to PECO and serve substations in Willow Grove and Bucks County."

The thread in question, Glenn's reply is on Page 2: electric-power-between-harrisburg-and-p ... 86-15.html

Now, I know we're talking about two different lines here. However, given the possibility of PECO using catenary over there, it's possible they might use it on the Keystone Corridor. I'm not sure how far they go though, since PECO is Philly based. If anyone could verify or debunk this, we'd appreciate it.
What you are seeing is the 169 kV 25 hZ feeder lines. s I understand it the ROW is still owned by Amtrak who had the high voltage lines rebuilt from Safe Harbor several years ago/ It really gets complicated where in places tracks are NS but power lines are Amtrak and in a few Pepco 3 phase is on top of Amtrak much like some of the NEC.ROW.
The transmission lines are 69kV phase to ground, and 138kV phase to phase. The original phase to ground voltage was 66kV, providing 132kV phase to phase; this was increased in order to increase the 11kV traction voltage in the catenary to 12kV. The two 138kV circuits along the abandoned ROW of the Atglen and Susquehanna Railroad between Safe Harbor and Atglen were almost completely replaced in 2010 and 2011 when Norfolk Southern sold the ROW back to the surrounding townships for $1, with Amtrak retaining a utility easement. Depending on the age of the line, the 60Hz transmission circuits are hung alongside the 25Hz transmission circuits on the H-beams, while in other places the 60Hz lines are built on extensions to the H-beams directly above the tracks.

As far as I know the actual catenary itself is NOT used by normal 60Hz electric utilities. My understanding is that it is frequently retained to provide redundancy in traction supply, reduce resistance in current flow for catenary above tracks that are still in service, and minimize or eliminate the necessity to alter the mechanical aspects of the 1930s-era catenary in places where doing so might balloon into wholesale demolition and replacement.

Re: All things Pennsylvanian AND Keystone West

  by west point
 
TheOneKEA: You are correct. Was thinking of another unrelated operation. Apology offered. Was unable to edit original post stating wrong voltages.

Often thought that upping the transmission voltages was a very less expensive way to increase nominal CAT voltage.

Re: All things Pennsylvanian AND Keystone West

  by Jeff Smith
 
Looks live the Allegheny Valley Railroad wants to abandon the Brilliant Branch, where Amtrak turns 42 and 43: PDF

Amtrak is negotiating continued access.

Re: All things Pennsylvanian AND Keystone West

  by STrRedWolf
 
Jeff Smith wrote: ↑Wed Apr 10, 2024 8:59 am Looks live the Allegheny Valley Railroad wants to abandon the Brilliant Branch, where Amtrak turns 42 and 43: PDF

Amtrak is negotiating continued access.
Abandonment filing.

I would think NS would buy the line at the very least... but I see Amtrak buying and maintaining it.

Re: All things Pennsylvanian AND Keystone West

  by scratchyX1
 
Jeff Smith wrote: ↑Wed Apr 10, 2024 8:59 am Looks live the Allegheny Valley Railroad wants to abandon the Brilliant Branch, where Amtrak turns 42 and 43: PDF

Amtrak is negotiating continued access.

Re: All things Pennsylvanian AND Keystone West

  by Jeff Smith
 
Annual Operating Cost: thecentersquare.com
Pittsburgh-New York train expected to cost $8M annually to operate
...
The service expansion, announced in September after Amtrak and Norfolk Southern worked out an agreement, will require $218 million for capital improvement along the Norfolk Southern-owned corridor, according to PennDOT officials.

After initial upgrades, PennDOT expects the additional roundtrip train journey to cost about $8 million annually, which factors in ridership revenue that offsets some costs.
...

Re: All things Pennsylvanian AND Keystone West

  by ExCon90
 
According to the post immediately above, that's after the anticipated revenue is added in.

Re: All things Pennsylvanian AND Keystone West

  by rcthompson04
 
If I remember correctly that was about what the Pennsylvanian’s operational subsidy was pre-Covid for one round trip so that makes sense a second would be that amount.

Re: All things Pennsylvanian AND Keystone West

  by west point
 
Of course, that figure assumes second train has same mix and number of passengers as the Pennsylvanian. Highly doubt that assumption. I cannot guess what the true ridership & revenue will be nor can anyone else. We certainly did not anticipate the NC RR figures. NC's ability to add cars quickly is a factor that will not be present for this new train.

Re: All things Pennsylvanian AND Keystone West

  by RandallW
 
I think that we can expect the second frequency to cannibalize some ridership from the existing train, but we can also expect the second frequency to induce new ridership on both trains that partly offset what it cannibalizes from the existing train. Looking at the numbers from adding a second frequency to the Roanoke-DC-NYC train in July 2022, there was an immediate increase of about 7000-8000 riders a month between Roanoke and DC on that route.

Re: All things Pennsylvanian AND Keystone West

  by rcthompson04
 
RandallW wrote: ↑Sat Apr 13, 2024 6:10 am I think that we can expect the second frequency to cannibalize some ridership from the existing train, but we can also expect the second frequency to induce new ridership on both trains that partly offset what it cannibalizes from the existing train. Looking at the numbers from adding a second frequency to the Roanoke-DC-NYC train in July 2022, there was an immediate increase of about 7000-8000 riders a month between Roanoke and DC on that route.
Yea I drive when I visit Pittsburgh for work now, but will probably take Amtrak with the second train as the timing will be better for business travelers.
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