All things Pennsylvanian AND Keystone West

It's here..... a 2nd Pennsylvanian frequency: UnionProgress.com

PennDOT, Norfolk Southern sign agreement to enable a second passenger train between Pittsburgh and Harrisburg

Pennsylvania has reached a formal agreement with Norfolk Southern Railroad to make $200 million worth of station improvements and begin a second daily Amtrak passenger trip from Pittsburgh to New York City.
...
The agreement calls for the state to make track and signal improvements at five stations to accommodate the additional passenger trips. That work at Pittsburgh, Johnstown, Portage, Altoona and Harrisburg, which is already being designed, will create additional side tracks to allow freight trains to move out of the way so passenger trains can pass through as well as signal improvements.
...
Right now, the one daily trip on the Pennsylvanian leaves Pittsburgh at 7:30 a.m. and arrives in Harrisburg at 12:53 p.m. with the return trip leaving Harrisburg at 2:36 p.m. and arriving in Pittsburgh at 10:01 p.m. The proposed new schedule would have trains leaving Pittsburgh at 7 a.m. and noon and leaving Harrisburg at 9:46 a.m. and 4:40 p.m.
...

Time in the schedule is two hours off, the arrival time for 43 is 8:01 in Pittsburgh

CNJGeep wrote: ↑Tue Sep 26, 2023 10:15 am Time in the schedule is two hours off, the arrival time for 43 is 8:01 in Pittsburgh

I think they mixed up the times. I pulled my timing spreadsheet and saw the 10:01pm arrival time for the second run.

Still... Having to get up and to the station by 5:20am so I can get the right train for the early arrival in Pittsburgh?!? Ugh, okay, I'll have to overnight in Philly...

Jeff Smith wrote: ↑Tue Sep 26, 2023 3:37 am The proposed new schedule would have trains leaving Pittsburgh at 7 a.m. and noon and leaving Harrisburg at 9:46 a.m. and 4:40 p.m.

#25 The Duquesne, and #23 Manhattan Limited WB .#32 St.Louisian, and #72 Juniata EB.

Source: PRR Form 1; Match 15, 1953.

Lest we forget, an Amfleet is sure better than a P-70.

I look at it as not 200 Million dollars for one additional train, but for the capacity for multiple trains, of which there is clearly demand. Yes, half of that money is for restoring tracks which shouldn't have been ripped out, but it's also improving multiple stations. I figure two addition Pittsburg to Philadelphia trains, on top of The new Pennsylvanian would make the cost worth it. Especially since the new Aero sets will have no locomotive tango in Harrisburg, and at least 6 powered axles, if not 8, so faster acceleration on the hills.

scratchyX1 wrote: ↑Tue Sep 26, 2023 1:21 pm I look at it as not 200 Million dollars for one additional train, but for the capacity for multiple trains, of which there is clearly demand. Yes, half of that money is for restoring tracks which shouldn't have been ripped out, but it's also improving multiple stations. I figure two addition Pittsburg to Philadelphia trains, on top of The new Pennsylvanian would make the cost worth it. Especially since the new Aero sets will have no locomotive tango in Harrisburg, and at least 6 powered axles, if not 8, so faster acceleration on the hills.

The locomotive tango happens in Philadelpia. Where are you getting that they swap engines in Harrisburg?

STrRedWolf wrote: ↑Wed Sep 27, 2023 9:51 am

scratchyX1 wrote: ↑Tue Sep 26, 2023 1:21 pm I look at it as not 200 Million dollars for one additional train, but for the capacity for multiple trains, of which there is clearly demand. Yes, half of that money is for restoring tracks which shouldn't have been ripped out, but it's also improving multiple stations. I figure two addition Pittsburg to Philadelphia trains, on top of The new Pennsylvanian would make the cost worth it. Especially since the new Aero sets will have no locomotive tango in Harrisburg, and at least 6 powered axles, if not 8, so faster acceleration on the hills.

The locomotive tango happens in Philadelpia. Where are you getting that they swap engines in Harrisburg?

I thought locomotives were switched in Harrisburg? Maybe I'm going by outdated info, from PRR days.

Mr. Scratchy, keep Amtrak electric motive power away, and a case could be made "SEPTA, you are the only user of the CAT, so you pay for all of it".

I suppose the only reasons such is active West of Thorndale are emergencies and the possibility of a SEPTA takeover PHL-HBG "one of these days".

scratchyX1 wrote: ↑Wed Sep 27, 2023 12:39 pm I thought locomotives were switched in Harrisburg? Maybe I'm going by outdated info, from PRR days.

Nope. It makes more sense, since the train goes in the same end it comes back out from Philly. They take it off one end and put the other one on the other end. That way, you just have to wye the engine you took off: Electric in the afternoon and diesel that night (and refuel it of course).

The Keystones are push-pull service, so no swap there.

Still, the Airos will do away with all of that and stops in Philly will be much faster. They'll still have a crew swap in Harrisburg.

Pardon me if this was already answered.
I was wondering, how are P42s turned when they're cut off from Train 42 in Philly?
Are they wyed at Zoo? The reason I ask this is because when I got off Keystone 643 today, I heard a bell.
When I looked up, I noticed a Metroliner cab car moving by with a P42 pushing it. It was so fast & there were so many people on the platform, I wasn't able to get a photo or video .
It could've been an equipment move, but who knows. The P42 has to be physically rotated, so it may have still went to Zoo, rather than just going to Penn Coach Yard.

Also, how was it done when engine swaps were more common? Like when Keystones regularly used diesel on the Keystone Corridor? Same / similar process?

Afaik they're wyed at ZOO, constituting the only remaining regular use of the "New York-Pittsburgh Subway," originally built to get the east-west "Blue Ribbon Fleet" from North Philadelphia to Paoli.

NortheastTrainMan wrote: ↑Mon Oct 23, 2023 8:29 pm Also, how was it done when engine swaps were more common? Like when Keystones regularly used diesel on the Keystone Corridor? Same / similar process?

I don't think I have seen a diesel on a Keystone in a decade other than as a rescue, a precaution for inclement weather or once functioning as a control car.

ExCon90 wrote: ↑Mon Oct 23, 2023 8:56 pm Afaik they're wyed at ZOO, constituting the only remaining regular use of the "New York-Pittsburgh Subway," originally built to get the east-west "Blue Ribbon Fleet" from North Philadelphia to Paoli.

Ether that, or they run two P42's butt-kissing each other and each end takes hand-off duties.

Yes, every day the P42 off 42 is wyed. Once 42 leaves for NY they shove out, around the wye, shove back in to the pit at Race St. That puts it in position for the next day's 43.

What you might have seen was a cab car coming out of the shop that needed to also be wyed or taken for a test ride.

The last time diesels were on Keystones was around the end of the AEM-7 era in the dead of winter, there was a week or two when the rotations that didn't go to New York ran with a diesel.

CNJGeep wrote: ↑Tue Oct 24, 2023 9:00 pm Yes, every day the P42 off 42 is wyed. Once 42 leaves for NY they shove out, around the wye, shove back in to the pit at Race St. That puts it in position for the next day's 43.

What you might have seen was a cab car coming out of the shop that needed to also be wyed or taken for a test ride.

The last time diesels were on Keystones was around the end of the AEM-7 era in the dead of winter, there was a week or two when the rotations that didn't go to New York ran with a diesel.

Ah, so that explains the cab car. Thanks. I was wondering why it was there.
I figured the P42 would likely sit in the yard. It's not like they're used for much else on a regular basis.
For additional context, 643 that day (Oct 23) ran with a OOS Food Service / Cafe Car with an ACS-64 on each end. So it looks like there were a few unorthodox moves taking place that day.
Thanks again.