All things Pennsylvanian AND Keystone West

ExCon90 wrote:... and since the train reverses direction at 30th St. they have to change power there anyway--better to do it once than twice.

Doesn't the Keystone reverse direction to go up to NYC from HAR anyway, and is all electric? I doubt the caternary power is different from the NEC and the Harrisburg line, so the Keystone just does push/pull operation... and gets delayed anyway as the engineer and crew has to set the hand brakes, engineer has to switch ends while everyone unloads/reloads (maybe reset the engine for high speed reverse), pop the hand brakes, do the brake test (again) and get going.

The only difference between the Keystone and the Pennsylvanian in this regard is they swap some staff, swap the diesel for electric, most likely swap engineers as well, set up the train off the new engine, and of course have a period of weird stillness in the dark.

When ACSES was put online to Harrisburg,there was a need to put a motor in front of the P42 for the run to H-burg,
beyond that NS has put online their PTC system that the P42 had to be setup for.

I think I hear what you're saying STrRedWolf.....

Both The Pennsylvanian and Keystone Service trains run in one direction to 30th St, then in the opposite to either NY or Harrisburg/Pittsburgh. So why not do the same setup for The Pennsylvanian as a Keystone Service?

Well obviously you'd need to add a cab car (which would be one more piece of equipment) to one end of The Pennsylvanian. HOWEVER, the one major sticking point in this proposal is that I don't believe diesels are permitted into the tunnels in New York. Not saying it hasn't been done, but I don't think it would be plausible on a daily basis.

I may have completely missed the mark with my reply, but I thought I put it out there anyway.
Ben

liftedjeep wrote:I think I hear what you're saying STrRedWolf.....

Both The Pennsylvanian and Keystone Service trains run in one direction to 30th St, then in the opposite to either NY or Harrisburg/Pittsburgh. So why not do the same setup for The Pennsylvanian as a Keystone Service?

Well obviously you'd need to add a cab car (which would be one more piece of equipment) to one end of The Pennsylvanian. HOWEVER, the one major sticking point in this proposal is that I don't believe diesels are permitted into the tunnels in New York. Not saying it hasn't been done, but I don't think it would be plausible on a daily basis.

Diesels have always been banned from the core of NYC since before Amtrak, so it's electric from the Hudson to Long Island.

If I remember correctly, the Pennsylvanian runs with a cab car already... probably two cab cars. I think they stopped wye-ing the train in Pittsburgh after loading folks on it.

The Pennsylvanian does not use a cab car...nor to my recollection has it ever used a cab car.
Nick

ngotwalt wrote:The Pennsylvanian does not use a cab car...nor to my recollection has it ever used a cab car.
Nick

The Pennsylvanian line-up is as follows:
1 ACS-64/P42DC
1 Amfleet Business Class car
1 Amfleet Cafe car
4 Amfleet coaches
(not necessarily in that order)

-I do not believe a cab car was ever a regular in the consist. The Pennsylvanian began as two coaches and a cafe car. Overtime more coaches were added.

Ben

Ben:

Back in the early to mid 1980s when the Pennsylvanian was new the train was even shorter:
Two Amfleet cars - a Coach and a Amcafe car - along with an F40PH was the consist.
The train - and its daily ridership - has grown considerably over time.

For a time - instead of overnighting in PGH - the consist ran back to Altoona as the "Fort Pitt".
ALT-PGH west AM, east PM and was serviced overnight at Altoona. This service operated from
April 24,1981 to January 30,1983. The service ended when Penndot funding was discontinued.
Conrail was also not enthusiastic about these added runs and turns which did not help matters.

During 1981 there was a commuter train that ran between Pittsburgh and Greensburg that was
titled the "Parkway Limited". This train was operated by Conrail using leased cars from Amtrak
which were heritage coaches. Penndot funded these runs during reconstruction of I-376 Penn
Lincoln Parkway in Pittsburgh's eastern suburbs. The train was discontinued when its funding
ended and again Conrail was not then open to operating PGH commuter trains.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Parkway_Limited" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

To this day - in particular after the ending of the "Broadway Limited" and the "Three Rivers"
it still surprises me that this important rail route has just one train each way per day HAR-PGH.
This route can support at least one more frequency or two perhaps if things can be worked out
with Norfolk Southern and if Penndot - and maybe even some local counties or other authorities
are willing to fund added train service. The population potential for support on the route is there.

MACTRAXX

Study Movement: Newsworks.org

Brief, fair-use:

Proposal to expand passenger rail west of Harrisburg gains momentum
...
State Senator Randy Vulakovich has proposed SR76, a resolution that would direct the Legislative Budget and Finance Committee to undertake a nine-month feasibility study — the first step in adding more daily trips. The Senate Transportation Committee passed the resolution unanimously. Now, it goes to the full Senate for a vote.
...
Government agencies like PennDOT, companies like Amtrak and Norfolk-Southern, and advocacy groups like WPPR and the Pittsburgh Downtown Partnership all have their own studies that they've undertaken and numbers that they quote. WPPR estimates between $10 million and $12 million to add two more trips a day. PennDOT has quoted a cost of $3.75 million to $6 million for each additional trip.

This nine-month period would include a review of all the existing studies on the issue to hopefully form some sort of consensus around the cost and benefits of adding two more daily trains.
...

-Supposing both "Pennsylvanian's" (both east & west bounds) are running on time and per schedule, does anyone know where in PA they generally would meet and pass each other?
Ben

liftedjeep wrote:-Supposing both "Pennsylvanian's" (both east & west bounds) are running on time and per schedule, does anyone know where in PA they generally would meet and pass each other?
Ben

The current schedule has them passing each other by between Lancaster and Exton.

I'd have to work up a possible schedule for three round trips...

Cross posted from Private Varnish topic:
Train 43 Pennsylvanian had PV BABBLING BROOK on Friday.
Departing for Pittsburgh.

STrRedWolf wrote:

liftedjeep wrote:-Supposing both "Pennsylvanian's" (both east & west bounds) are running on time and per schedule, does anyone know where in PA they generally would meet and pass each other?
Ben

The current schedule has them passing each other by between Lancaster and Exton.

I'd have to work up a possible schedule for three round trips...

Thanks STR!

Not sure I'm following you on what you mean by "working up a schedule for three round trips" however.....
Ben

liftedjeep wrote:

STrRedWolf wrote:I'd have to work up a possible schedule for three round trips...

Not sure I'm following you on what you mean by "working up a schedule for three round trips" however.....

Earlier I made a Google Sheet doc of the Pennsylvanian's schedule to play around with different theoretical timings. I even did an off-shoot that had the equipment keep going on the NEC down to Washington, DC (the "Cougar Mountain").

But since the government, NS and Amtrak are studying two extra round trips... I thought I'd look at the schedules again. That'll be another in this thread.

Ahhh, copy that! Thanks
Looking forward to what you come with!
Ben

STrRedWolf wrote:Earlier I made a Google Sheet doc of the Pennsylvanian's schedule to play around with different theoretical timings. I even did an off-shoot that had the equipment keep going on the NEC down to Washington, DC (the "Cougar Mountain".)

From your lips to Philly AF's ears

I wonder what theoretical timings there would be for PGH-HAR-RDG-PHL. (EDIT: Knowing of course that Norfolk HQ would be less than thrilled with such a proposal.)