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All Things Cascades incl Vancouver

Discussion related to Amtrak also known as the National Railroad Passenger Corp.

Moderators: GirlOnTheTrain, mtuandrew, Tadman

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Re: All Things Cascades incl Vancouver

 #1637316  by RandallW
 
Reading about the charging suggests that some Teslas didn't have issues charging because the car's onboard systems did heat the batteries prior to arriving at the charging points. This suggests that maybe just carrying some more insulation (ideally a fire resistant one), and being smart about when to charge, or what to do prior to charging, both of which are easier on a railroad than in a car, these charging issues are not likely to be a problem, especially in any "extended range" EV setup. ("Extended range" EVs are EVs that carry a small diesel engine that turns on when needed to charge the batteries; at least two fire truck manufacturers (Rosenbauer and Pierce) build these in the US, with claims of significant fuel cost savings and noise reduction in the cabs.)

Re: All Things Cascades incl Vancouver

 #1637363  by David Benton
 
I'm talking about trains , not cars. specifically for this corridor , of which there are examples running in Europe , in areas with similar winter conditions.
On a train , they would be heated while charging , and insulated well enough to stay warm. A lot more room to do so than a car.

Re: All Things Cascades incl Vancouver

 #1637387  by wigwagfan
 
David Benton wrote: ↑Mon Jan 22, 2024 2:45 pm No service or other mode runs at 100% load factor.
Then I never, ever want to hear about "induced demand", "highways congested the second they are open", "endless highway congestion", etc. Because you just proved, it doesn't exist.
David Benton wrote: ↑Mon Jan 22, 2024 2:45 pmAn average of 100 riders means some days/sections more,some less. So you would need more than 2 bus to cover the route.
You'd need ON AVERAGE two buses to replace the train. Those two buses are far more fuel efficient, and labor efficient, than the ONE bus that it replaces, because the vast majority of the energy consumed is going towards moving the train itself - NOT its revenue passengers or the baggage/freight carried. Furthermore, more buses means more schedules when people want to travel, rather than the two very poorly timed train schedules, so more ridership = even more efficiency for the bus.
David Benton wrote: ↑Mon Jan 22, 2024 2:45 pmBut I would agree Amtrak is very fuel in efficient. A modern Dmu would use a lot less, on par with 2 or 3 bus.
Only if you count the fuel efficiency of carrying its own weight. An Amtrak train is about 95% tare weight, 5% actual revenue weight. Where else is 5% considered "efficient"? Even a modern SUV is magnitudes more efficient than an Amtrak train (around 75% tare weight - still "inefficient", but much more efficient than Amtrak.)

Re: All Things Cascades incl Vancouver

 #1637388  by wigwagfan
 
Tadman wrote: ↑Mon Jan 22, 2024 9:47 am Wigwag, do you think there is something else wrong with the operation? I make a lot of posts about service levels, timing/scheduling, market rate trackage rights... I don't doubt your assessment but find it hard to believe that in such an environmentally conscious area with a big university, they have such poor ridership. Should the schedules be moved? Fares adjusted for students, state workers, professors? Equipment adjusted to carry bikes and skateboards, maybe camping gear? A dedicated bus from PUS to PDX for out-of-towners?
The fares are already dirt cheap and literally giving away the service isn't attracting ridership. The State's own employees, heavily environmentalist/Democrats, are still preferring by leaps and bounds to use E-plated SUVs for "business" (a.k.a. taxpayer funded) travel over the environmental friendliness and convenience of Amtrak Cascades. Transit advocates and planners overwhelmingly choose I-5 over the scenery and comfortable seats of Amtrak Cascades. College students by huge margins love Subaru and Toyota, not Siemens and Talgo.

What's wrong with Amtrak Cascades?

Two pitiful schedules, horrifically timed.
A lack of meaningful connections. Piss-poor intercity bus service. Piss-poor local bus service. (You basically need a car at either end of your Amtrak journey, so why not just have the car?) Traffic is a non-issue 99.9% of the time in the Willamette Valley (unless you decide to take Oregon 99E and get stuck behind a tractor.) The inconvenience of having to make a reservation and buy tickets ahead of time, rather than board and pay like a bus. Believe it or not, the majority of Amtrak's riders DO NOT connect to or from TriMet's MAX light rail, Portland Streetcar or WES Commuter Rail. And when you need to get to Happy Valley, Tigard, McMinnville, Canby, Lebanon or Junction City - Amtrak absolutely, positively CAN NOT help you. Amtrak works, if you're in the tiny, tiny, tiny population of people within walking distance to an Amtrak station. For the other 4 million Oregon residents? They overwhelmingly drive. Because they don't live their entire existence within 2,000 feet of 800 N.W. 6th Avenue, Portland; 1757 Washington Street, Oregon City; 500 13th Street SE, Salem; 110 SW 10th Avenue, Albany or 433 Willamette Street, Eugene. And if you're a student of Western Oregon University, Linfield University, Pacific University, George Fox University, Reed College, University of Portland, Western University of Health Sciences? Yeah, Amtrak don't serve you, either.

Re: All Things Cascades incl Vancouver

 #1637389  by wigwagfan
 
David Benton wrote: ↑Mon Jan 22, 2024 10:59 pm We were in a city yesterday , and a diesel bus pulled up beside us. what a noisy , smelly thing , I instantly thought , as the previous city we had been in had battery buses .
Funny how someone who complains about "noisy, smelly" buses have absolutely NO ISSUE with "noisy, smelly" diesel locomotives, that have to exert huge amounts of energy (read: more pollution, more smell, more toxic gases, and more noise) to haul a train that's designed to haul only 5% of its weight in actual load, and 95% of the weight is just absolutely dead mass.

BTW: Those batteries you love? Transit agencies don't. Extremely unreliable and aren't meeting goals. A lot of expensive battery buses across the country have been parked in part because they can't obtain necessary parts for repair, the batteries are dead, or the buses simply don't provide enough range to be useful. And in Portland during the recent ice storm? The overhead powered MAX system ground to a full and complete stop, with absolutely ZERO service whatsoever. What saved the day? That pitiful, smelly, noisy bus. For the essential workers who had to get to their shifts at the hospital? Yeah, they loved the bus. It got them where they needed to go. Even post-storm, MAX is shut down due to a construction project that will cost taxpayers $160 million, all to save exactly ONE MINUTE of travel time on trips to Portland International Airport - an airport that has struggled to regain passenger numbers after COVID, on a transit system that is struggling to regain its ridership post-COVID. But our freeway and road system? Busting ALL-TIME records. Maybe, spending billions on a limited and unreliable train system wasn't a good idea, proven by its failure to function at all. But, keep whining about those noisy, smelly buses. Do you complain about diesel ambulances, too? Would you rather die waiting for an electric one?

Re: All Things Cascades incl Vancouver

 #1637515  by west point
 
Another landslide caught 2 trains enroute. Route was just opened after past 48-hour closing. Open route lasted all of ~ 5 hours. Both trains just missed coming on the landslide. Now another 2 days shutdown. With all the rain forecast in the Portland / Vancouver, Wa area will not be surprised that another landslide happens. Maybe BNSF will extend the 48 hour moratorium longer due to all the rain?

https://www.amtrak.com/alert/service-te ... ttle-.html

Re: All Things Cascades incl Vancouver

 #1637522  by Vincent
 
Felida is the new Mukilteo. Landslides have been largely eliminated in the Mukilteo area, but Felida seems to be the new trouble spot. There are some steep hills alongside the tracks in the Felida area that are prone to sliding when the ground gets soaked. I would imagine someone at WSDOT is already working on a grant proposal to mitigate the slide risks--at least I hope so.

Local weather will be unusually warm and very wet for the next 10 days. Expect many days of bus subs between Seattle and Portland.

Re: All Things Cascades incl Vancouver

 #1637698  by Tadman
 
wigwagfan wrote: ↑Wed Jan 24, 2024 11:43 pm
What's wrong with Amtrak Cascades?

Two pitiful schedules, horrifically timed.
... The inconvenience of having to make a reservation and buy tickets ahead of time, rather than board and pay like a bus. ...
I feared this was a big piece of it. This is why Amtrak has no business being in the local corridor trains business. They think it's the Lakeshore Limited of Oregon. It's not, it is a commuter train. 4-5x/day, pay through an app or credit card, no reservations, gallery cars with walkover seats. This should be a direct copy of the Kenosha Metra line. But Amtrak doesn't think that way and never will. "bUt mUh P42 GensSis iZ MonCoQue aND cAn go 103!!!"
wigwagfan wrote: ↑Wed Jan 24, 2024 11:43 pmFor the other 4 million Oregon residents? They overwhelmingly drive.
You can imagine then, why some corridors in slightly more conservative states (IE anything other than Oregon, Mass, Vermont) don't ride the trains. Why go through the hassle when you have a Denali LWB with seat heaters?
wigwagfan wrote: ↑Wed Jan 24, 2024 11:43 pmif you're a student of Western Oregon University, Linfield University, Pacific University, George Fox University, Reed College, University of Portland, Western University of Health Sciences? Yeah, Amtrak don't serve you, either.
See the discussion somewhere of last mile issues. You could have a small fleet of Sprinter vans that shuttle students between those campuses and a parkway station at the edge of town to feed the train. But of course they don't. It probably takes just as long to drive downtown to the station and find parking as it does to teh other end of the line.

Re: All Things Cascades incl Vancouver

 #1637863  by Vincent
 
https://www.oregon.gov/odot/About/GR/20 ... Report.pdf

The Q4 2023 ridership numbers have been released.
Ridership for October through December 2023
• Fourth quarter ridership was up 5 percent over the third quarter of 2023.
• The pre-pandemic baseline for comparison purposes is 2019. Ridership for the fourth quarter of 2023
on the Oregon portion of the Amtrak Cascades route was 35 percent higher than the fourth quarter
of 2019, continuing the upward trend of ridership recovery since the pandemic.
• Ridership for the months of November and December exceeded all previous years’ ridership for
those same months.
Can we stop with the doom and gloom reporting of Cascades ridership in Oregon? The numbers indicate that ridership is over 100 passengers per train (not great), but it is growing rapidly (+35% over 2019 and the highest in history). There's still plenty of room for improvement, but the trend lines are very positive.

Re: All Things Cascades incl Vancouver

 #1637864  by Vincent
 
Vincent wrote: ↑Thu Feb 01, 2024 9:35 pm https://www.oregon.gov/odot/About/GR/20 ... Report.pdf

The Q4 2023 ridership numbers for the Oregon trains have been released.
Ridership for October through December 2023
• Fourth quarter ridership was up 5 percent over the third quarter of 2023.
• The pre-pandemic baseline for comparison purposes is 2019. Ridership for the fourth quarter of 2023
on the Oregon portion of the Amtrak Cascades route was 35 percent higher than the fourth quarter
of 2019, continuing the upward trend of ridership recovery since the pandemic.
• Ridership for the months of November and December exceeded all previous years’ ridership for
those same months.
Can we stop with the doom and gloom reporting of Cascades ridership in Oregon? The numbers indicate that ridership is over 100 passengers per train (not great), but it is growing rapidly (+35% over 2019 and the highest in history). There's still plenty of room for improvement, but the trend lines are very positive.

Re: All Things Cascades incl Vancouver

 #1637902  by Tadman
 
At 74 passengers per car, that is 1.3 cars filled. Given the amount of colleges and government business on line, this should be 4-5 cars per train and 4-5 trains per day.

Re: All Things Cascades incl Vancouver

 #1637950  by Vincent
 
ODOT has plans for a 4+1 schedule between Eugene and Portland (4 Cascades roundtrips + 1 Starlight). But plans don't mean anything without the enthusiasm of the host railroad and lots of public money, both of which have historically been in short supply in OR.

Re: All Things Cascades incl Vancouver

 #1637953  by Vincent
 
And if you're a student of Western Oregon University, Linfield University, Pacific University, George Fox University, Reed College, University of Portland, Western University of Health Sciences? Yeah, Amtrak don't serve you, either.
What does this mean? U of Portland and Reed are within Portland's city limits and well-served by public transit. Most of the others are within 25 miles of an Amtrak station. I think college students have figured out how to use ride share apps.
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