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Adirondack Suspended (Just like that its gone)

Discussion related to Amtrak also known as the National Railroad Passenger Corp.

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Adirondack Suspended (Just like that its gone)

 #1624630  by Railjunkie
 
Amtrak's Adirondack service is no more, well until CN and Amtrak come to some agreement on how things are going to be handled north of the border ehh. CN has some wonderful "safety" speed restrictions on the Rouses Point Sub were if its 75 degrees or over trains are restricted to 35mph and if 90 degrees or above its 10mph. Sometimes I truly believe CN doesn't want us there which has been most of my railroad career.

Trains are suspended until further notice service will continue between NYP/ALB

Re: Just like that its gone

 #1624632  by hi55us
 
Such a short sighted move to anull it to Albany. Run it with locomotives at each end and have it turn at Plattsburgh or Rouses Point so NY state passengers still have a connection to upstate NY. Plattsburgh to Montreal is only 1'15" on the highway, could still run a bus to/from Montreal.

Re: Just like that its gone

 #1624633  by eolesen
 
I'd imagine they know the condition of their track well enough to know when and where to be concerned about heat kinks.



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Re: Just like that its gone

 #1624637  by Railjunkie
 
eolesen wrote: ↑Mon Jun 26, 2023 8:40 am I'd imagine they know the condition of their track well enough to know when and where to be concerned about heat kinks.



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This is the first time they have ever put such a restriction on the Rouses Point Sub, its been hot their before it is not like this suddenly a new thing in Canada. This also isn't the first time CN and Amtrak have had difficulties in their dealings with this train and the Rouses Point Sub about 5 and one half miles if I am going to guess. I'm willing to bet it has to with $$$ it always has.

Re: Adirondack Suspended (Just like that its gone)

 #1624651  by Jeff Smith
 
https://www.mynbc5.com/article/amtrak-s ... k/44345995
/North County Chamber of Commerce President Garry Douglas also expressed his disbelief and frustration with the decision in a press release.

""It's almost as if there's a conspiracy to interfere with the long awaited renewal of cross border travel now that we have things flowing again," Douglas said in a statement.

Plattsburgh Town Supervisor Michael Cashman issued a statement for the long-awaited return of Amtrak in March, saying that the service was scheduled to return on April 3.

Re: Adirondack Suspended (Just like that its gone)

 #1624708  by Mackensen
 
charlesriverbranch wrote: ↑Tue Jun 27, 2023 6:55 am If they can run the Vermonter to St. Albans, they can surely run the Adirondack to Plattsburgh,no?
Per Trains there aren't good places to turn at Plattsburgh or Rouses Point. They could run push-pull, but I assume you'd still need a place to park with 480V ground power. In 2019, the last full year of operation, Montreal and New York had the highest ridership, by far, followed distantly by Saratoga Springs and Plattsburgh. There isn't much point in an Adirondack without the Montreal connection. From a political standpoint, setting up a bus bridge or any other alternative might decrease the pressure on Canadian National to fix the tracks.

Re: Adirondack Suspended (Just like that its gone)

 #1624717  by Railjunkie
 
Mackensen wrote: ↑Tue Jun 27, 2023 7:47 am
charlesriverbranch wrote: ↑Tue Jun 27, 2023 6:55 am If they can run the Vermonter to St. Albans, they can surely run the Adirondack to Plattsburgh,no?
Per Trains there aren't good places to turn at Plattsburgh or Rouses Point. They could run push-pull, but I assume you'd still need a place to park with 480V ground power. In 2019, the last full year of operation, Montreal and New York had the highest ridership, by far, followed distantly by Saratoga Springs and Plattsburgh. There isn't much point in an Adirondack without the Montreal connection. From a political standpoint, setting up a bus bridge or any other alternative might decrease the pressure on Canadian National to fix the tracks.

You can make the round trip to Plattsburg or Rouses Point and back in a day no issue there are a couple of yards to clear up in. No need for 480v ground power as the train set would not overnight. As I said this all comes down to about 5.5 miles of railroad between Rouses Point and Cantic. CN does not use it, nothing on of value now that they tore out the wye 20 years ago. CN would very much like to be rid of it. As for the RSP there is a diamond in St Jean with a connection to a short line, a brewery in Brossard, a lumber yard in L'Acadie and other than running a couple of freights a day to Cantic to connect with the Swanton Sub to Vermont (if they even do that anymore) There really was not much on the sub other than Amtrak. All of the other branch lines that ran of the RSP have been gone for years, most were gone when I was still going up there.

It all comes down to money Amtrak did not pay when the boarder was shut down and they should not have to. It took forever and a day to get permission for Amtrak to get crews requalified north of the boarder then it was nothing but issues with CN with the speed restrictions and outlawed trains. Nothing that a little money through back channels wont fix it always has.

Re: Adirondack Suspended (Just like that its gone)

 #1624725  by Jeff Smith
 
https://www.adirondackexplorer.org/stor ... ndack-line
…

The reason given for this curtailment involves track conditions near Montreal, local officials said. They said Amtrak suspects the rails could warp under the weight of fast-moving trains at temperatures exceeding 86 degrees, forcing trains to run at 10 mph. The situation would push crews over their federally mandated workday limit.

Amtrak’s Jason Abrams provided a terse notice to the Explorer: “Amtrak rail partner Canadian National (CN) has implemented reduced speed regulations in Canada due to heat, impacting the Amtrak Adirondack route. Trains 68 and 69 will originate and terminate in Albany, NY until further notice.”
…

Re: Adirondack Suspended (Just like that its gone)

 #1624727  by Gilbert B Norman
 
Possibly I noted this earlier, but in order to maintain the "two a day mini-corridor" (with Ethan Allen), couldn't the State have considered continuing to Ft. Edward?

That being an interchange between the D&H and the Rutland RR, there must be a means to turn an engine there.

Re: Adirondack Suspended (Just like that its gone)

 #1624745  by MACTRAXX
 
Everyone - Interesting to note that a dispute over a key segment of track in Quebec south of Montreal to the US
Border at Rouses Point, NY is enough to keep the Adirondack from returning to service...Would there be some
way to fund the needed track upgrade that either Amtrak or VIA (on behalf) could work out with CN?

I came across some vintage Amtrak timetables recently - and found a copy of the FIRST Amtrak Adirondack
schedule dated August 6, 1974 "New Daylight Service New York-Albany/Rensselaer-Montreal"
My device unfortunately has no scanning capabilities - otherwise I would like to share this schedule here...

The stops were (N to S) Montreal Windsor Station, Montreal West and Lacolle in Quebec (northbound Canada
Customs stop); Rouses Point, Plattsburgh, Westport, Fort Ticonderoga, Whitehall, Fort Edward, Saratoga Springs,
Mechanicville, Watervliet-Colonie, Albany-Rensselaer, Hudson, Rhinecliff (Kingston), Poughkeepsie (Highland),
Croton-Harmon and New York-Grand Central Terminal.

Samples of the original Adirondack schedules - Train #68 south:
Leave Montreal Windsor Station 9:30 AM - Mile 0
Montreal West 9:42 AM - Mile 5
Lacolle, PQ (Canada Customs) at Mile 37 - no time shown
Rouses Point, NY (US Customs) - Mile 43
Arrive 10:51 AM; Leave 11:10 AM
Plattsburgh - 11:48 AM - Mile 66
Albany-Rensselaer - Mile 240
Arrive 4:30 PM; Leave 5:00 PM
Arrive New York-Grand Central Terminal 7:50 PM - Mile 381

Train #69 north:
Leave New York-Grand Central Terminal 8:30 AM
Albany-Rensselaer - Arrive 11:20 AM; Leave 11:40 AM
Plattsburgh 4:18 PM
Rouses Point, NY (US Customs) Arrive 5:05 PM; Leave 5:10 PM
Lacolle, PQ (Canada Customs) - no time shown
Montreal West - 6:35 PM
Montreal Windsor Station - 6:50 PM

The contract operators of the Adirondack at that time were Penn Central between NYG-ALB and
Delaware and Hudson ALB-MTR for Amtrak financed in part by NYS DOT.

There is a fare chart - One Way Coach Fare between NYG and MTR was $22.25 then (double for round trip)

Back to today: Can there be a compromise or agreement to restore Adirondack rail service to Montreal?
MACTRAXX
Last edited by MACTRAXX on Tue Jun 27, 2023 6:55 pm, edited 1 time in total.

Re: Adirondack Suspended (Just like that its gone)

 #1624746  by Gilbert B Norman
 
MACTRAXX wrote: ↑Tue Jun 27, 2023 6:08 pm Everyone - Interesting to note that a dispute over a key segment of track in Quebec south of Montreal to the US Border at Rouses Point, NY is enough to keep the Adirondack from returning to service...Would there be some way to fund the needed track upgrade that either Amtrak or VIA (on behalf) could work out with CN?
Mr. MACTRAXX, need we have another Amtrak funded MOW repairs for a "one a day"? Wasn't Kansas and New Mexico enough with the Chief?

Secondly, there will be no Congresscritter (and Boy Scouts) coming to the rescue as there were with the Chief. Uh, a slight little matter of jurisdiction to address.

Re: Adirondack Suspended (Just like that its gone)

 #1624755  by Railjunkie
 
MACTRAXX these are two separate routes. The route of your schedule is now owned by Canadian Pacific and Windsor Station is nothing more than a commuter stop with no facilities.
For those who say speed mixed with heat is an issue, CSX who isnt exactly a high end maintenance company on infrastructure has a heat restriction order. It is nothing more than reduce by 20mph but your capped at 40 mph. So in the case of the RSP were the speed is 50mph using the CSX method as an example you would be restricted to 40mph for passenger. If the speed was 40mph or lower carry on at that MAS.

Mind you these restrictions posted by CN are on welded rail were they also run their freight trains. That section of 5 and change mile section between Cantic and the boarder is still stick rail with little to no maintenance as its always been. No speed restriction there MAS 50mph.
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