Hampton Roads/Norfolk/Newport News NE Regional Service

[taoyue]

Suburban Station wrote:

That said, I've always wondered what the possibility of battery powered locomotives is (electric, no catenary or limited catenary). It woudl seem something as large as a locomotive would be perfect for experimenting with new technologies.

You mean battery-powered the whole way? Not going to happen with current battery technology.

Hybrid diesel locomotives are in development, but this is mostly to capture the energy currently dissipated as heat through the resistor grid during dynamic braking (much like an electric locomotive returns this energy to the catenary for other trains to use).

[gprimr1]

There's no need to electrify yet, let's get the tracks up to 110mph Diesel running before electrification comes into play.

I believe routing via the Hanover sub and opening a station near Kings Dominion and Bush Gardens would be a great asset to the route.

[jhdeasy]

I enjoyed the Twilight Shoreliner as an overnight train with its Viewliner sleeping car (New Port New to Boston via Richmond and Wasington DC) better than the Federal (Washington DC to Boston only). The problem was they could never getting a descent operating schedule of this train between Wasington DC and Boston in both directions - for the Twilight Shoreliner (it catered more to the mail schedule).

If ever resurrected, it may be best to operate under the current schedule of #66/67, with a Viewliner in tow. I remember when this train ran with two Viewliners! Now a Viewliner can hardly be scrapped together for current routes or routes where demand exceeds capacity (the lone Viewliner on the Cardinal). Course now the Viewliner would sort of be stranded, as it used to be switched out in Boston to the Lake Shore Limited train for eventual servicing at Sunnyside Yard NY and forwarding to Florida.

Warrington wanted to make the Twilight Shoreliner equivalent to the West Coast's Coast Starlight. Course I don't think that was ever achieved. Amenities came, but were quickly taken away as money ran thin!

I was not aware that parity with the Coast Starlight was one of GW's objectives for the Twilight Shoreliner ... I find that to be interesting.

I would rather see something like a Boston - Miami Viewliner sleeper, running on 66/67 between Boston and Richmond, laying over at Richmond a few hours and running between Richmond and Miami on 91/92.

By the way, un-named nocturnal trains 66 and 67 remain as the ONLY trains that will handle PVs between New York and Boston on the NEC Shore Line. The alternative is to run NYP - ALB - BOS, which can be done in one day traveling northeast, but requires an overnight at ALB when traveling southwest.

[Rail Boy]

gprimr1:

There's no need to electrify yet, let's get the tracks up to 110mph Diesel running before electrification comes into play

A very good point. Running at 110 from WAS to RVR would save just as much time as electrifying and avoiding the engine change, and would be a lot faster.

jhdeasy:

I was not aware that parity with the Coast Starlight was one of GW's objectives for the Twilight Shoreliner ... I find that to be interesting.

I would rather see something like a Boston - Miami Viewliner sleeper, running on 66/67 between Boston and Richmond, laying over at Richmond a few hours and running between Richmond and Miami on 91/92.

Is much as I have ridden the present 66 67 much more than it was as the twilight shoreliner, outside of having the viewliner, I never thought of it being any better from a coach standpoint than a regular train. I never I never understood the little icon of the martini glass in the schedule. It basically had the same 2 classes of service it had, plus the sleeping car.

[Mike77E9]

From Norfolk Southern's Website: http://www.nscorp.com/nscportal/nscorp/ ... enger.html

Virginia and Norfolk Southern sign landmark agreement for passenger rail service

RICHMOND- Governor Bob McDonnell announced today that the Commonwealth of Virginia and Norfolk Southern Railway Company have signed a landmark agreement that is an important step toward bringing daily intercity passenger rail service back to Norfolk for the first time since 1977. The round-trip train will link Norfolk with a single-seat ride to Richmond, Washington, D.C., and cities as far north as Boston.

[HBLR]

Wow, this is some good news. Means they might hire some new people to cover those additional trains.

[JackRussell]

Wow, this is some good news. Means they might hire some new people to cover those additional trains.

But will there actually be a new train? My guess is that they will just extend an existing train that currently terminates in Richmond.

[Mike77E9]

But will there actually be a new train? My guess is that they will just extend an existing train that currently terminates in Richmond.

I actually wonder if the Newport News train will continue to run, or if that train will get rerouted to Norfolk...

[hi55us]

But will there actually be a new train? My guess is that they will just extend an existing train that currently terminates in Richmond.

I actually wonder if the Newport News train will continue to run, or if that train will get rerouted to Norfolk...

could it be routed south past newport news to norfolk?

[mtuandrew]

could it be routed south past newport news to norfolk?

Not unless Amtrak has a new swimming train.

For reference, here's a recent Norfolk Southern map, front (http://multimodalways.org/docs/railroad ... 1-2006.pdf) and back (http://multimodalways.org/docs/railroad ... 1-2006.pdf), though a very large file.

[Arlington]

could it be routed south past newport news to norfolk?

Not without a crazy underwater tunnel. Newport News is on the north/west/inland side of the Hampton Roads harbor. Norfolk is on the south/east/Virginia beach side. Train access would require an underwater tunnel. Today two vehicular tunnels span the harbor (motivated by a desire to permit unfettered Naval movements).

I actually wonder if the Newport News train will continue to run, or if that train will get rerouted to Norfolk...

NN doesn't really have enough service to warrant (or "fund") a diversion, and is big enough to keep what it has. The Newport News peninsula (home to Jamestown, Yorktown, Williamsburg, etc. and PHF airport) has about 600k people (admittedly, just 1/3 of the Norfolk-Hampton Roads metro) and is served by PHF Airport (the smaller, less-served one). Amtrak currently terminates NEC trains on this side. Still, at 600k people, it would be the 4rd largest metro in Virginia (behind NoVa at 2.5m, Richmond at 1.1m and Norfolk at 1m), and far ahead of #5 and #6, Roanoke at 300k and Lynchburg 240k. Hampton trains pass through Richmond, and get to DC in 4h 20m

But will there actually be a new train? My guess is that they will just extend an existing train that currently terminates in Richmond.

Yes, but its not like there's a whole lot of extra Richmond trains to extend. It might take a train that terminates in DC, but would be worth extending through Richmond to get to Norfolk.The south (Portsmouth-Norfolk-Virginia Beach) side is home to about 1m people (2/3 of the combined Norfolk-Hampton Roads metro population) and home the busier airport (ORF). As noted above, it is a close rival to Richmond as the #2 metro in the state (even with Newport News metro excluded). I think part of the reason to connect it to the system is to build ridership to support more Richmond trains. Travel time is projected to be 1h 38m from Norfolk to RVR (Richmond Staples Mill) and then 2h 08m to DC (3h 42m total...definitely faster if you live on the south side of the water, but not necessarily better than 4:20 if you happen to live on the north side.

[Station Aficionado]

This is good news (and shows that not all GOP governors are anti-rail). But this is a long way from fruition. Most importantly, someone has to come up with the operating $$$ and equipment.

My recollection is that this will not effect the Newport News trains (and most days there are only two trains). Both NNS and Williamsburg produce very good ridership. While some of the NNS ridership is from the feeder bus from Norfolk, I think the majority is not. I think Norfolk and Newport News trains would be complementary, not competitive. If there are feeder buses for both sets of trains, there would be a decent sized combined corridor.

[JackRussell]

Yes, but its not like there's a whole lot of extra Richmond trains to extend. It might take a train that terminates in DC, but would be worth extending through Richmond to get to Norfolk. The south (Portsmouth-Norfolk-Virginia Beach) side is home to about 1m people (2/3 of the combined Norfolk-Hampton Roads metro population) and home the busier airport (ORF). As noted above, it is a close rival to Richmond as the #2 metro in the state (even with Newport News metro excluded). I think part of the reason to connect it to the system is to build ridership to support more Richmond trains.

Well, they only need one . How much room is there to get another train on the CSX tracks north of Richmond, anyways? My understanding is that it is fairly congested (which isn't to say that they couldn't add another, I guess).

[Station Aficionado]

How much room is there to get another train on the CSX tracks north of Richmond, anyways? My understanding is that it is fairly congested (which isn't to say that they couldn't add another, I guess).

The ex RF&P is now triple-tracked from just south of the Long Bridge to Franconia, with plans to extend the triple tracking to Fredericksburg. The real bottleneck is Acca Yard on the north side of Richmond. They still need to figure how to insert a passenger bypass on the east side of the yard.

Another exciting aspect of Norfolk trains would be additional service to Main Street Station, which should eventually supplant Staples Mill as the primary Richmond station.

[Arlington]

How much room is there to get another train on the CSX tracks north of Richmond, anyways? My understanding is that it is fairly congested (which isn't to say that they couldn't add another, I guess).

An earlier article from June http://hamptonroads.com/2010/06/train-l ... hree-years seems to cover this.

Also included is construction of a new connection between Norfolk Southern and CSXT tracks near Petersburg. These improvements will enable passenger trains to run on Norfolk Southern’s busy Heartland Corridor route...The Commonwealth continues to make progress on the necessary agreements for improvements to CSX track and with Amtrak. These agreements must be in place before new intercity passenger rail service can begin.

If they are strictly doing this by extending a RVR train, then they may not technically also need the new 3rd track from Arkendale to Powell's creek (see the MARC and VRE board), but that's also a key issue in getting more and more reliable service to Richmond.