Viewliner II Delivery/Production

ApproachMedium wrote:Hopefully these designs and the fact that CAF still has the info on their site shows they are dedicated to finishing the project.

I agree that the public sites likely indicate continued commitment by the vendors. The photos of modules in production are even more promising.

gokeefe wrote:I wonder if the above practice may be one reason why Amtrak gave up on table service.

Might be a self-fulfilling cycle: fewer diner customers, higher prices, crew takes up more seats, Amtrak installs fewer seats, and forever on until there’s one seat for a $1000 dinner plate

^ While not directly Viewliner related I was quite surprised to find on the Cap Limited this past week that the dining car is now closed to coach passengers. The new Superliner diner appears to have a bit more capacity than before the "contemporary dining" refurb (although I may be misremembering) but many fewer people were using it, instead preferring to take their boxes back to their rooms. Given that -no one- was eating their breakfast in the diner when I retrieved mine around 8, I honestly don't understand why Amtrak was refusing to sell boxes to coach passengers.

As far as the food goes, I skipped dinner (too many good options in Chicago), I was unimpressed with the breakfast box (the 'fresh cut fruit' does not age well) and I was disappointed (but not surprised) that their was no lunch (although they were willing to give me another breakfast box around noon). The balsawood box and the spiffy to-go bags were kinda cool -- shrug.

Bob Roberts wrote:^ While not directly Viewliner related I was quite surprised to find on the Cap Limited this past week that the dining car is now closed to coach passengers. The new Superliner diner appears to have a bit more capacity than before the "contemporary dining" refurb (although I may be misremembering) but many fewer people were using it, instead preferring to take their boxes back to their rooms. Given that -no one- was eating their breakfast in the diner when I retrieved mine around 8, I honestly don't understand why Amtrak was refusing to sell boxes to coach passengers.

As far as the food goes, I skipped dinner (too many good options in Chicago), I was unimpressed with the breakfast box (the 'fresh cut fruit' does not age well) and I was disappointed (but not surprised) that their was no lunch (although they were willing to give me another breakfast box around noon). The balsawood box and the spiffy to-go bags were kinda cool -- shrug.

WTF? As an occasional overnight coach passenger on various trains, I'm really hating this trend. I want a REAL dinner, not some cafe wannabe.

Bob Roberts wrote:^ While not directly Viewliner related I was quite surprised to find on the Cap Limited this past week that the dining car is now closed to coach passengers. The new Superliner diner appears to have a bit more capacity than before the "contemporary dining" refurb (although I may be misremembering) but many fewer people were using it, instead preferring to take their boxes back to their rooms. Given that -no one- was eating their breakfast in the diner when I retrieved mine around 8, I honestly don't understand why Amtrak was refusing to sell boxes to coach passengers.

As far as the food goes, I skipped dinner (too many good options in Chicago), I was unimpressed with the breakfast box (the 'fresh cut fruit' does not age well) and I was disappointed (but not surprised) that their was no lunch (although they were willing to give me another breakfast box around noon). The balsawood box and the spiffy to-go bags were kinda cool -- shrug.

It's the same car as before, but might have felt roomier because the cafe has moved out and back to the lower level of the lounge. There was indication in the past that they would sell boxes to coach passengers in the future (and I would note that other such rumors came to pass). I suspect there are several considerations in play:

• Pricing the individual meals. Obviously Amtrak knows what they cost, but they need to come up with a number.
• Capacity. I recall hearing that the boxes take up a good deal of space in the existing diner-lounge. That may not be the case. There was definitely concern the last time I was on the Cap about running out of the hot option. That was a month ago, and things have probably improved.
• The logistics of coach passengers in the sleeper lounge, if only to pick up the meals.

Let's not act as though coach passengers were anything other than second class citizens before the change. You got the last choice in sittings, if any were available. Heaven help you if you were a coach passenger on the Boston section. 8 PM or later, with whatever dregs the New York section didn't eat. Take forever to catch the attendant's eye so you could cash out. I'm not too worked out about this one.

I can't see Amtrak running both a Superliner Diner/CCC AND Superliner Sightseer Lounge outside the summer season. Would probably make most sense to just operate the Sightseer Lounge car, as then you have a true lounge and the table seating too....even though Amtrak says the Sightseer Lounge is the one that is a seasonal car......send the Cross Country Cafe Superliner to the Auto Train. Have never gotten what scenery there is to take in on the Auto Train.....

I just gave up on taking the train to Chicago. Flying for first time in over 18 years. Just no patience with the food service and lateness. Closest would be to take the Lakeshore, but the more superior train, I found at least in previous years when Heritage Diner was removed - the Capitol Limited. I wasn't alone in that one either. Hated the Lakeshore's Diner Lite and lack of lounge car. Would tolerate the Cardinal ONLY if for the scenery. But now with the Capitol Limited's downgraded food service, forget it.

One would think NARP, or whatever it is called, should be ALL over this but they have seemed to have capitulated..... The longer they let this go, the longer it will seem commonplace and drive even more people off. I can't be the first or last one. First time ever there's no decent sit down meal,service between Chicago and East Coast via passenger train service. NARP touts the SWC success, but Anderson keeps pounding out the notices of change coming! I think the LD trains are done for. That's fine, but just pull the plug. Saving $1.5M per train with this new box meal service..... A smoke screen to get to the real intention.

Returning back to topic: how many Viewliner diners are left to be delivered, and was a Dorm/Sleeper received by Amtrak? Thought there was rumor of this in the last delivery? Amtrak could likely sell the Viewliners to VIA when the axe finally falls. VIA still seems intent on operating two major long distance overnight trains - as long as the infrastructure doesn't collapse and affect the route. Viewlimer sleepers and diners would work on VIA's Ocean.....

From Imlauer Hotel Pitter, Salzburg--

Mr. JP, the count is three Diners, Nine Dorms, twenty five Sleepers, or a total of thirty-seven cars.

But don't think food down grade is just Stateside. Coming from Vienna on an OBB Railjet, the food, a boiled beef, was not that good. Prior trips darned good, but OBB has changed the outside catering contractor. And to make matters worse, their credit card machine was "out to Lunch". I've seen this before over here before; credit card machine doesn't work - it's YOUR fault. But I get indignant over that but fortunately I had cash to settle the €31,00.

jp1822 wrote:The longer they let this go, the longer it will seem commonplace and drive even more people off.

How many net people (in number) have been driven off?

So far, the only numbers I'm aware of are the Starvation where lower prices attracted more people than the lack of food drove off.

Why should NARP oppose a policy that increases the number of rail passengers?

Arlington wrote:

jp1822 wrote:The longer they let this go, the longer it will seem commonplace and drive even more people off.

How many net people (in number) have been driven off?

So far, the only numbers I'm aware of are the Starvation where lower prices attracted more people than the lack of food drove off.

Why should NARP oppose a policy that increases the number of rail passengers?

A recent blog on Trains:

A host of actions taken by Amtrak . . . have the combined effect of discouraging patronage and shrinking revenues for the company’s long-distance National Network trains . . .

On-board service staff is being cut to the bare minimum . . . tour operators are being discouraged from reserving sleeping car space, and many stations in small and mid-sized cities are losing their ticket agents

Based on some recent trip reports, Amtrak may be creating a record high number of ‘never-agains,’ passengers so put off by bad experiences that they won’t buy another Amtrak ticket, at least not on a long-distance train. Among these are troubling observations by former Amtrak Board member Ross Rowland from a recent Syracuse-Denver round-trip on the Lake Shore Limited and California Zephyr. Rowland reports that sleeping car passengers are now being limited to one bottle of water, one hand towel and one washcloth per room with only six towels available in the communal shower for the entire trip, that complimentary juice* is gone and complimentary coffee is limited to one half pot per car per day, a lack of cleanliness due to the furloughing of a number of coach cleaners in Chicago, waste tanks on the eastbound Zephyr that were not emptied in Oakland, a burnt-out Lead Service Attendant on the Lake Shore who was the sole food service provider to two full Viewliner sleepers, and that agents in Chicago were ordered to throw away all remaining inventory of printed schedules and timetables. When asked to comment about this report, Amtrak spokeswoman Kimberly Woods declined.

* these juice boxes are $1 at the Dollar Tree

^ Non-numerical anectdotes, while supportive of the idea that bloggers and foamers have been driven off, are not supportive of a claim to be losing net passengers.

Also, this being a V-Ii thread, LDSL data would be called for, not Zephyr.

Agreed. Most of the bad news has been anecdotal and come from three sources - Trains Mag, PTJ, and NARP. Most of their writers and personnel seem to be of the same mind: "We must preserve A-day which has the mission of preserving 1959". Hard pass... makes no sense and probably doesn't make financial sense either.

I'm of the same mindset. People who talk more about food service than transportation are treating trains as a form of entertainment and not transit.

Would have thought this might have been obvious, but apparently not: the food service was what made the lousy transportation tolerable.

gokeefe wrote:I'm of the same mindset. People who talk more about food service than transportation are treating trains as a form of entertainment and not transit.

The thing is, esp on the wester long hauls and the Auto train, these trains are a form of entertainment/leasure for some. While the AT provides a serious function, the people once on board are looking to be wined and dined and have a good time.

The lack of onboard passenger entertainment food or otherwise is lacking these days and removes the incentive to take the train over driving.

ApproachMedium wrote:

gokeefe wrote:I'm of the same mindset. People who talk more about food service than transportation are treating trains as a form of entertainment and not transit.

The thing is, esp on the wester long hauls and the Auto train, these trains are a form of entertainment/leasure for some. While the AT provides a serious function, the people once on board are looking to be wined and dined and have a good time.

The lack of onboard passenger entertainment food or otherwise is lacking these days and removes the incentive to take the train over driving.

I consider a movie or wine and cheese tastings entertainment. Food is a necessity.