VIA pushing Amtrak?

Well I saw this video a few weeks ago and to this day still cant figure out what was going on....

A flat out break down?
a electrical issue?
A fire?
flat in the wheel?
etc?

Not sure but something happen to this amfleet car and Id like to know what here is a clip of the event seems Via had to push it back to Mimico yard alone, so it shows the age old rule of borrowing someones item.... you break it, you fix it!


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Cbq-5LfRwLE

anyone care to try and solve this mystery feel free too comment......

Is that an Amfleet II? I have never seen them push a single car like that.

Hello kaback9 is a amfleet I diner/cafe car. You will notice that there are doors on both ends of the car, Amfleet II dinettes/cafe only have doors on one end. Oddly enough the Maple leaf runs with mix match standardized amfleet equipment at times but its always amfleets,I'm sure needed to clear Penn station. However no horizon cars, etc. The International ( when running) was the real mess of the bunch it used everything and anything Amtrak could pull out.

However as I said this car move was just weird !

I posted the topic here in the VIA section instead of AMTK as this clip happened on Canadian soil.

Replies moved over from the Amtrak Topic page................

buddah wrote:

Gilbert B Norman wrote:Simple enough, Mr. Buddah. That is VIA handling Amtrak equipment at Toronto that was interchanged to them at International Bridge (location code CBN) used on the NY-Toronto Maple Leaf.

That it was interchanged to VIA means that they are reponsible for its movement; why the car was being drilled separate from the train, I know not.

The Maple Leaf is an interline Amtrak-VIA train. The other two Amtrak trains operating in Canada, namely the Adirondack and the Cascade, are Amtrak trains that have trackage rights over the CN from their respective frontiers to their respective destinations in Montreal and Vancouver.

But otherwise, a good quality video you located for the Forum.

thanks for the reply gilbert I opened a topic on it in the VIA forum for any who care to comment, love to have you over there.. usually equipment is taken straight to the Mimico yard with the rest of the maple leaf and no equipment is left at TWO, Mimico yard is before TWO on the route so there would be no need for this reverse move if interchanging from CBN. so Im thinking break down at the last min. and had to do a last min. tow back to Mimico yard. As its a morning shot so the maple leaf has just left or is about to, but not sure so I opened the topic.

possible option ? Could it be VIA was using this Amtrak car on one of there own VIA rail trains for evaluation of replacement of a VIA service car?

possible option ? maybe VIA is deciding to add cafe cars to the corridor runs instead of the regular snack service and this was used as a test car ?

welcome to all comment...

ah, did not see the second set of doors..

possible option ? Could it be VIA was using this Amtrak car on one of there own VIA rail trains for evaluation of replacement of a VIA service car?

possible option ? maybe VIA is deciding to add cafe cars to the corridor runs instead of the regular snack service and this was used as a test car ?

welcome to all comment...

If I understand correctly from other forum discussions, VIA and Amtrak's trains operate on different, and incompatible electrical systems. So for VIA to use this car on one of their own trains, it would require a converter of some sort, or to be hauled dead in the consist (making it useless for passenger carrying).

I don't see why VIA would have any reason to be testing it. The only food-service/lounge type cars VIA operates in the corridor at present are the Renaissance service cars, used on all Renaissance trains. Even then, they are on many if not all of those trains accessible only to VIA 1 (first class) passengers. The LRC and HEP-2 consists have gotten by with airline-style snack service for years, and VIA hasn't shown any real interest in excessively expanding that. They did take back the food-service version of the LRC coaches built for Amtrak, and though they repainted them and used them for a while on International service/the Maple Leaf, they were not upgraded and sit in VIA's Montreal Maintenance Centre yard at present.

Now don't get me wrong. I would love to see VIA add food-service cars to corridor runs, but I don't think it is probable. I also question why VIA would be testing new cars, when all of their somewhat limited funds are currently being invested in rebuilding the F40 fleet, and the exisiting LRC coaches.

That the Cafe was B/O after the equipment for the Maple Leaf had been set is believable. Mr. Buddah, but the only preplexing issue is how did the VIA F-40 end up on the head?

Logically, the VIA F-40 "switcher" (lest we forget, Amtrak also uses road power for switching duties at many a facility - principally the 5XX B-32's) would have simply drilled the car out of the Station and been on the rear. Is it even possible at Toronto Union, which is stub end if I properly recall, for an engine to be placed on the head? If somehow the F-40 was able to be coupled to the head, i.e. my memory has failed and Toronto Union has run through tracks, the only reason there would be to do so is if the A-I's rear draft gear was the reason the car was B/O'd.

I highly doubt though, and concurring with Mr. Timberley, if VIA arranged with Amtrak to hire any of its equipment other than to use on their portion of the Maple Leaf.

Mr. Norman Toronto is set up as a run through station.

Even if the last time I took a train out of Toronto, namely the Cavalier during July 1980, it departed from a stub end track, i should note that I'm aware GOTransit is a run through.

Apparently it was readilly possible to spot the F-40 "switcher" on the head of the A-I Cafe, and giving credence to my earlier thought that the rear draft gear had been Bad Ordered resulting in the car being pushed to the yard.

Hopefully the deficiency was limited to something minor such as a malfunctioning coupler pin. Repairs made to equipment on a foreign road beyond the routine of brake shoe replacement can get very VERY costly.

maybe the car was bad ordered and its heading to the via shop for repair sense its in canada.

Well Mr. Ramone, if a car, freight or passenger, is Bad Ordered account its running gear, then it must be repaired on the spot - it ain't a movin' until....

If the car is roadworthy, i.e. it can move over the road, and if a passenger car, was Bad Ordered account, say, HVAC, electrical, and in this case since it is a Food Service Car, refrigeration, then at the option of the car's owner (Amtrak), it can be deadheaded back to an Amtrak facility.

But that it was being pushed by a VIA switcher suggests the car was Bad Ordered at the station after the equipment set and that the reason for its B/O was related to its running gear.

Gilbert B Norman wrote:Even if the last time I took a train out of Toronto, namely the Cavalier during July 1980, it departed from a stub end track, i should note that I'm aware GOTransit is a run through.

Hopefully the deficiency was limited to something minor such as a malfunctioning coupler pin. Repairs made to equipment on a foreign road beyond the routine of brake shoe replacement can get very VERY costly.

Mr Norman 1980 thats when I was born!!! We have got to get you back on the Canadian side of the border for a visit sometime soon. As union station in Toronto is about to undergo another transformation. All tracks inside at Union station in Toronto are now run through tracks even the one outside platform south of the shed is a run through ( I believe it was a end track at one time) Yes It might have been just something simple like a malfunctioning pin or coupler that disabled the amfleet cafe car but I was just throwing some possible ideas out there as to not hope for the worst. If its the Maple leafs cafe car I'm inclined to believe the car started malfunctioning sometime during the push backwards from Mimico yard to Union station before departure ( yes for those who don't know VIA pushes the train backward for roughly 10 KM or 6 miles ) to allow for a forward departure out of Union station in the AM. The Male leaf Is hooked up to power over night in VIA's yard so it must have shown some operational signs or it would have been uncoupled and left in the VIA Mimico yard, only during the push back in the AM would a issue have been found out then once the train reached Union station VIA uncoupled it and moved it to a side track and let the Maple leaf run without a cafe care.

From the direction of the video captured...... Next a VIA F40 was possibly called in to bring it back to VIA's Mimico yard. The funny thing is "IF" the F40 came from the Mimico yard they could have attached it to the front of the car as thats the direction it would have came from and pulled it, but the Clip shows if that is what happened, then the F40 did a run around at Union station and connected to the rear of the car and pushed it back to Mimico ( as the clip shows) instead of the simple forward pull. So your theory on the coupler or Pin might be very accurate Mr. Norman. not sure where the car was in the consist IF it was the cafe from the maple leaf usually its at the head end behind the Locomotive and sometimes its trailing at the end of the consist, its never in the middle (Maple leaf usually runs 5 amfleet cars). If it was a B/O that crippled this amfleet, its very possible but from what is the question. As I said Im not sure what happened but your guess is as good as mine.

PS: Timberley & ramonesfan in variations of locomotives to equipment operation.......
.VIA's P42 and F40... CAN... couple and provide power to most Amtrak equipment with little to no issues ( just the VIA locos have no sanders so are not allowed in the US)
.Amtrak's P40/42 ..CAN'T.. operate VIA's cars as VIA uses a dual/tripple bus and or phase system form what I'm told and amtrak uses a single system.
.VIA's F40/P42...CAN'T... operate the Ex-Amtrak LRC because of a different phase and bus and HEP requirement from VIA's LRC Rail fleet.( VIA had modified 2 of there F40 back in the 80s to accommodate those LRC cars and Amtrak equipment to run them on the international but since the retirement of those LRC cars the F40's have been changed back to normal VIA stock)
. Amtrak's P40/42 in theory ...SHOULD... be able to pull the EX-Amtrak LRCs with little to no modifications but its never been tried and possible won't so its just a theory.

Its all just a hot mess..lol

This car had been set out by #97's crew after it arrived from the TMC. The brakes would not release on the car and in fact arrived from the shops with a set of brakes smoking and red hot. Apparently a couple days earlier the same car had a similar issue but they managed to get the brakes released, this time however the car had to be set off and sent to the TMC(Toronto Maintenance Center) for repair. I was talking with the hogger and he mentioned that the brake disks were so hot that the carman who was working under the car got too close and had parts of his safety vest melt when it came into contact with the disk :o

Terry Brennan

Thank you Mr. Brennan for stepping forth and sharing information from the source.

Well, now that it has been established that the car had defective running gear, VIA had no alternative other than to set it out. If that car also has the Business Class seating, then presumably it was on the rear and did not have to be drilled from the consist.

I would like to think that Amtrak forces at Sunnyside (NY) were aware that this car had been a bad actor of late; so much for "state of good repair'. Quite honestly, I wouldn't blame VIA one bit if they are not to "cut a deal' with Amtrak to make this car roadworthy again, and if it shows up again in a consist of Amtrak 63 (VIA 97), make 'em set it out at the border until documentation that necessary repairs have been made is forwarded to VIA authorities.

That a VIA Carman came too close with serious injury is simply inexcusable.

These things have a tendency of not showing up till the last moment damm gremlins! I'm sure the train passed all it's tests before leaving Sunnyside and the TMC on the
Canadian side but stuff happens. Though there really is no excuse to send out equipment that you know is having issues. The other day just before Via #75 departed Toronto
the yardmaster said to the crew that the previous crew had reported issues with the HEP dropping and that if it happened again they may have to loop the cables on one side at
the rear of the unit......well guess what happened, they weren't even 5 minutes out when the HEP went down!