The future of the SEPTA fleet

A SEPTA/MARC order would likely have a scaled back traction motor/transformer configuration, as they do not need a 8500 hp 135 mph piece of equipment. If MBTA ever decides they want electric service, now would be a good time for them to get on the bandwagon as well.

25Hz wrote:A SEPTA/MARC order would likely have a scaled back traction motor/transformer configuration, as they do not need a 8500 hp 135 mph piece of equipment. If MBTA ever decides they want electric service, now would be a good time for them to get on the bandwagon as well.

Not necessarily. Derating can easily be done through a change in software configuration. Why pay more for mods when you can simply tell the computer not to put out as much power.

I won't be surprised if SEPTA tries to get comets from NJT in the future

ekt8750 wrote:

25Hz wrote:A SEPTA/MARC order would likely have a scaled back traction motor/transformer configuration, as they do not need a 8500 hp 135 mph piece of equipment. If MBTA ever decides they want electric service, now would be a good time for them to get on the bandwagon as well.

Not necessarily. Derating can easily be done through a change in software configuration. Why pay more for mods when you can simply tell the computer not to put out as much power.

Workable, but what did we learn from HHP-8?

25Hz wrote:

ekt8750 wrote:

25Hz wrote:A SEPTA/MARC order would likely have a scaled back traction motor/transformer configuration, as they do not need a 8500 hp 135 mph piece of equipment. If MBTA ever decides they want electric service, now would be a good time for them to get on the bandwagon as well.

Not necessarily. Derating can easily be done through a change in software configuration. Why pay more for mods when you can simply tell the computer not to put out as much power.

Workable, but what did we learn from HHP-8?

I think those problems had more to do with Bombardier than anything else. That thing was a lemon.

Why so much desire for no railfan window locomotive hauled trains?
All other things being equal, wouldn't something that has to go fast also need to be stronger, and possibly weigh more, than something slower? Yeah, I can see that you could just ask these high speed locomotives to go slower, but meanwhile they're dragging with them whatever it is that they need to go fast.

And we haven't even gotten into the wear and tear that frequent starts and stops might do to them which they might not experience on the longer runs for which they're intended.

Locomotive hauled: short term easy to get, and can buy from and sell to just about any property.
MU's: short term harder to get, not as many other outfits that can help with getting economies of scale, which historically nobody's tried, small current exception Denver's tinnyliner 5 clones, but better suited to fast acceleration and braking.

And we can always dream there's an unobstructed front window we can look out.

Patrick Boylan wrote:Why so much desire for no railfan window locomotive hauled trains?
All other things being equal, wouldn't something that has to go fast also need to be stronger, and possibly weigh more, than something slower? Yeah, I can see that you could just ask these high speed locomotives to go slower, but meanwhile they're dragging with them whatever it is that they need to go fast.

And we haven't even gotten into the wear and tear that frequent starts and stops might do to them which they might not experience on the longer runs for which they're intended.

Locomotive hauled: short term easy to get, and can buy from and sell to just about any property.
MU's: short term harder to get, not as many other outfits that can help with getting economies of scale, which historically nobody's tried, small current exception Denver's tinnyliner 5 clones, but better suited to fast acceleration and braking.

And we can always dream there's an unobstructed front window we can look out.

Using push pulls means (typically), only using them for express service, fewer motors to inspect, lower cost/passenger to procure and operate, etc.

You did say typically.
1. only using them for express service
this restricts their flexibility. In SEPTA world there aren't many expresses. That paragon of railroading perfection, Metro North, runs many more and longer expresses on lines whose stations are typically a lot further apart than SEPTA's. How much of their fleet's locomotive hauled?

2. fewer motors to inspect
that's the only thing that looks to me to be a recurring savings. But that's bigger motors which undergo more stress than mu's smaller motors that typically need only be big enough and suffer wear and tear to move 1 car.
If you want fewer motors why not have motor-trailer combinations, like the Lackawanna electrics?

3. lower cost/passenger to procure
that's what I meant when I said "short term easy to get"

4. and operate
I'm not sure about that. Doesn't it depend on if you restrict them to expresses, as you mentioned above, and which SEPTA pretty much does, but other properties, like NJT, don't? Every penny you save in operating only as express you can wind up losing each time you wind up needing to use them as locals.
And add in some expenses because parts, mechanical expertise, shop facilities appropriate for locomotive and coaches might not be appropriate for mu's and vice versa. Even yards and station platforms can be a problem, 8 cars and a locomotive don't fit in the same place 8 mu's do.

One more reason to maintain push/pull capability: in the remote (but necessary) event that passenger svc is extended to Pottstown and/or Quakertown, most economical & practical way to make that happen would be diesel-hauled push/pull, maybe obtaining used coaches. BTW, whatever happened to the double-decker luxury push/pull coaches used in the failed "ACES" Atlantic City service?

rrfan2000 wrote:One more reason to maintain push/pull capability: in the remote (but necessary) event that passenger svc is extended to Pottstown and/or Quakertown, most economical & practical way to make that happen would be diesel-hauled push/pull, maybe obtaining used coaches. BTW, whatever happened to the double-decker luxury push/pull coaches used in the failed "ACES" Atlantic City service?

Those were NJT coaches, and are back in the general pool AFAIK.

scotty269 wrote:

rrfan2000 wrote:One more reason to maintain push/pull capability: in the remote (but necessary) event that passenger svc is extended to Pottstown and/or Quakertown, most economical & practical way to make that happen would be diesel-hauled push/pull, maybe obtaining used coaches. BTW, whatever happened to the double-decker luxury push/pull coaches used in the failed "ACES" Atlantic City service?

Those were NJT coaches, and are back in the general pool AFAIK.

Those were Casino Partnership coaches, but I believe they have been sold / leased to NJT for service in the recent months.

nomis wrote:

scotty269 wrote:

rrfan2000 wrote:One more reason to maintain push/pull capability: in the remote (but necessary) event that passenger svc is extended to Pottstown and/or Quakertown, most economical & practical way to make that happen would be diesel-hauled push/pull, maybe obtaining used coaches. BTW, whatever happened to the double-decker luxury push/pull coaches used in the failed "ACES" Atlantic City service?

Those were NJT coaches, and are back in the general pool AFAIK.

Those were Casino Partnership coaches, but I believe they have been sold / leased to NJT for service in the recent months.

Rats! It would have been soooo nice to have bar car service on the Newtown branch. :0

I do find this thread amusing with all the wishes being thrown around,if Septa doesn't get its much needed find the Railroad fleet will be substantially reduced, the bomber will stay as they are refurbing some cars, who know how many get done before the money is gone, the GEs I can see being left to rot as 9 out of 13 lines won't have trains by 2013!!! So the future is Vs for everyone....

I know the likelihood of the doomsday plan actually taking place in its entirety is not really something anyone wants to see, but it has been laid out before us all.

Limited-Clear wrote:I do find this thread amusing with all the wishes being thrown around,if Septa doesn't get its much needed find the Railroad fleet will be substantially reduced, the bomber will stay as they are refurbing some cars, who know how many get done before the money is gone, the GEs I can see being left to rot as 9 out of 13 lines won't have trains by 2013!!! So the future is Vs for everyone....

I know the likelihood of the doomsday plan actually taking place in its entirety is not really something anyone wants to see, but it has been laid out before us all.

I concur 100% (except it's already 2013). SEPTA is in serious financial crisis, and if we don't see that additional funding, we have virtually no chance of seeing any new equipment in time to come.

Now since Septa is looking to possibly replace the AEM-7s with the ACS-64s, would this also include 2308 even though it is much newer?