• Status of Savin Hill station in terms of reopening

  • Discussion relating to commuter rail, light rail, and subway operations of the MBTA.
Discussion relating to commuter rail, light rail, and subway operations of the MBTA.

Moderators: sery2831, CRail

  by SbooX
 
Ron Newman wrote:Regardless of who is or isn't breaking what law, the rule that should be applied here is a simple utilitarian formula: "the greatest good for the greatest number". Which means opening the station now, even though not everyone will be able to use it yet.

The state law should simply be changed as necessary so that the state isn't breaking it when it opens the station.
If I'm not mistaken, the Architectural Access Board is simply interpreting the ADA, which is a federal not state law. While I (reluctantly) believe that the law should be changed to accomidate for such situations, good luck getting congress to give a damn about a handful of Dorchester residents.

  by efin98
 
SbooX wrote:
Ron Newman wrote:Regardless of who is or isn't breaking what law, the rule that should be applied here is a simple utilitarian formula: "the greatest good for the greatest number". Which means opening the station now, even though not everyone will be able to use it yet.

The state law should simply be changed as necessary so that the state isn't breaking it when it opens the station.
If I'm not mistaken, the Architectural Access Board is simply interpreting the ADA, which is a federal not state law. While I (reluctantly) believe that the law should be changed to accomidate for such situations, good luck getting congress to give a damn about a handful of Dorchester residents.
Especially when there is direct contradictory evidence thanks to Community College and Malden Center.

  by ckb
 
Yeah, but Community College and Malden Center weren't completely rebuilt like Savin Hill was. See "Pete"'s comments a few posts earlier that the ADA holds new construction to stringent standards that it doesn't necessarily hold older buildings too. Doesn't look like anyone here is expert on what those standards are or what category Savin Hill falls under. It does feel like any leniency the ADA or courts, etc. might have granted wasn't going to go the MBTA's way given their current, public struggles with elevator and escalator maintenance. Someone is trying to teach a lesson. Problem is, the MBTA may not be receiving the lesson since they say there's no way to get the elevator in earlier. Hopefully they will learn for the next time.

On the other hand ... it is a pretty silly ruling from a rider's perspective. The elevator at Harvard Station is out of commission. But no one is suggesting that Harvard Station should be shut down ..... <putting on facetious idea cap>the MBTA should have pretended the elevator was there for the opening day of the station (i.e. install fake doors, etc.), then scribble a handwritten "out of order" sign on it and the would have been good to go <removing said cap as well as tongue from cheek> :-)

  by efin98
 
ckb wrote:Yeah, but Community College and Malden Center weren't completely rebuilt like Savin Hill was. See "Pete"'s comments a few posts earlier that the ADA holds new construction to stringent standards that it doesn't necessarily hold older buildings too.
I acknowlege the point about new construction and it's been proven with the Blue Line 10 years ago when the stations beyond Orient Heights were torn down and made accessible. However I am stating simply that the main argument here regardless of where everyone stands and what they say still remains that with the two examples(Malden Center and Community College) the opening without the ADA access is a mute point. It can't be done without further delaying the compliance of the station.
Doesn't look like anyone here is expert on what those standards are or what category Savin Hill falls under. It does feel like any leniency the ADA or courts, etc. might have granted wasn't going to go the MBTA's way given their current, public struggles with elevator and escalator maintenance. Someone is trying to teach a lesson. Problem is, the MBTA may not be receiving the lesson since they say there's no way to get the elevator in earlier. Hopefully they will learn for the next time.


Actually the MBTA gave in to the demands by not opening the station, which shows they have learned from mistakes in the past. However the T also has the "wrath" of the locals to deal with due to giving into the demands, which may come back to bite the T later on. Lose/lose situation, but compared with the loss of more money from lawsuites and bad press the lesser of two evils is better than nothing.
And "next time" is not likely to come for decades as the last of the stations are already set to being their designs and construction and unless there is a drastic change in the system calling for expansion beyond the dreams of railfans and "advocates" we are not likely to see any more changes to stations for years.
On the other hand ... it is a pretty silly ruling from a rider's perspective. The elevator at Harvard Station is out of commission. But no one is suggesting that Harvard Station should be shut down .....
Harvard has alternative means of entry that the T is utilizing, other stations don't have that luxury and would have to be closed for a while.
<putting on facetious idea cap>the MBTA should have pretended the elevator was there for the opening day of the station (i.e. install fake doors, etc.), then scribble a handwritten "out of order" sign on it and the would have been good to go <removing said cap as well as tongue from cheek> :-)
What you are suggesting is illegal and would never work. But don't think the idea didn't cross the contractors' minds :-D

  by Ron Newman
 
At Uphams Corner, the T has decided to keep the (very inaccessible) commuter rail station open throughout construction, even though this will likely make construction take longer. Not sure why the same logic can't apply at Savin Hill.

  by efin98
 
Ron Newman wrote:At Uphams Corner, the T has decided to keep the (very inaccessible) commuter rail station open throughout construction, even though this will likely make construction take longer. Not sure why the same logic can't apply at Savin Hill.
As was pointed out several times before at length: it's a renovation and not a total removal.

  by fm535
 
Some of the fluorescent lighting along the platform has been activated and left on for the weekend. It is looking good! The escalator is looking good, but I can't tell much on the elevator side of things!

  by Robert Paniagua
 
The platform edges, on the side where tje trains come in contact with the gaps, I've seen more mischevious grafitti..................not again!

The previous grafitti at one of the brick wall panels has since been cleaned, now though we got the platform edge, I saw it from my Braintree Red Liner.

  by fm535
 
I went by Saturday afternoon, and the entire side wall to the platform, all the new brick was totally covered in grafitti. They really did a lot of damage this time, and I am amazed at how much they covered! The T needs to put a few cameras on the building!

  by fm535
 
As I went by Savin Hill last night from the Braintree side of things, I noticed the entire station was lit up now including the vestibule and stairways. The pit was lit up last week, and the station seems to be cleaned up amd organized like it is getting ready for a re-opening soon. Does anyone know the new date?

  by Robert Paniagua
 
Yeah I hope they don't delay this one (like the Space Shuttle Launch!!) I also saw that one of the Elevators will still be down, hopefully it won't remain down too long.

Now, how about the small parking lot that accompanied it, are they ever gonna reopen that? That would be nice, just in case I ever decide to drive there...

  by dudeursistershot
 
Hopefully someone who lives in the area can get pics, it looks really nice...

  by Ron Newman
 
The T's web site says that Savin Hill station opened today at 6 am. Only the Savin Hill Avenue entrance is open.

  by AznSumtinSumtin
 
All I can say about this is WOOHOO! Hopefully this reopening will better serve the Vietnamese section of Dorchester. I was getting tired of having to take the 18 bus from Andrew to get to my favorite stores and restaraunts.