Southcoast Rail

I second what Tom said. This project was already hard to justify even with Diesel traction. I suspect the only reason the project is being considered at all is ude to politics.

Jon

Now, now, now! As an ex-transit consultant, I can tell you that some studied projects actually get built!
But, it won't be FR-NB, and not any time soon. This football has been kicked around for 20 years; it'll be another
20 before anything gets done,if ever.

TomNelligan wrote:

Triker wrote:Another study, study after study, after dumb study, what the hell do they acomplish?

They guarantee long-term state employment to consultants! You wouldn't want those poor guys to have to get real jobs, would you? Seriously, I couldn't agree more with your point. Massachusetts wastes millions of our tax dollars on these study things because it's built into the political culture.

And speaking of waste, at $1.4 billion for 6,300 daily customers, that's a construction cost of over $222,000 per rider even before you get into operating subsidies. I'd put the money (if it really appears) into transit projects that would benefit more people, like the Green Line extension beyond Lechmere.

Its actually worst than 1.4 billion for 6300. Its only 2500 new riders if you read the documents. That makes it more like 700,000 per new rider.

Yes, but these riders ride daily. Dividing the dollar amount by the number of riders doesn't make sense since it would be assuming that the "daily riders" only ride once and never ride again.

diburning wrote:Yes, but these riders ride daily. Dividing the dollar amount by the number of riders doesn't make sense since it would be assuming that the "daily riders" only ride once and never ride again.

True, but my point was that it's an enormous amount of money being spent for each person who will benefit -- if the same people are riding every day, it's still a huge lump-sum subsidy for each one. The same money spent on projects with a higher number of potential riders (like the Green Line extension) would benefit a larger number of people. And as a taxpayer I believe that principle of getting the most for your money should apply to any public works project, although I know that's a hopeless fantasy given the nature of Massachusetts politicians.

If you use a 30 year payback, its around 19000K per year, per rider. That is the capital cost. This doesn't factor in the operation costs over the 30 years. It seems to me we are spending in the neighborhood of 15K extra per rider to make it rail rather than a bus or some other reasonable means to bring these folks to Boston. Hell at 700K per rider, it would be cheaper to provide them housing in Boston. This is a project that is being done for political reasons.

Given the current budget constraints, the only project in my opinion the T should be investing in is the Green Line extension to Medford. This can be done for several hundred thousand and will serve many more rider per day including weekends. When the T can't even afford to by new locomotives, spending on a project like this makes no sense.

I'd really prefer the system to be in a state of good repair rather than spending huge amounts of money on a project with so little benefit.

It's not a matter of political will...it's that the T has no interest in running electric equipment whatsoever. They wouldn't even know what it looks like if Amtrak didn't electify north of New Haven. It's the same reason they don't run shorter off-peak trains. It's the same reason they don't run overnight. They have no will. It doesn't matter if the price of diesel goes up tenfold. They don't care. It's their way or the highway...literally.

Nobody should be surprised by this one......reported by the New Bedford Standard-Times.

"State Treasurer Timothy P. Cahill said Tuesday it will be "virtually impossible" to build a commuter rail line to the city (New Bedford) and Fall River ....."

Link to the full story:

http://www.southcoasttoday.com/apps/pbc ... /905130318

Someone who speaks the truth unlike our current Governor.

Would this be going directly from New Bedford to Fall River, or is it a spur off of the planned Boston - Fall River Old Colony extension? Or is this planned to use the line which runs on a long trestle along the highway and dead ending at a lumber yard?

This was planned around use of the existing New Bedford and Fall River lines from Myricks down to each city, the exact means of reaching from there to Boston was the object of numerous multi-million dollar studies over the last ten years with a line through Stoughton being favored.

It seemed like something has been "going on" (or not going on) in this situation, as the "Southcoast Rail" website has had no changes in quite a while and seems rather out of date now. Maybe somebody gave them the word that this project is going nowhere.

I see in the Standard-Times coverage they revealed that all this "Southcoast Rail" stuff and the studies are costing SEVENTEEN MILLION DOLLARS. That is a nice reward for a bunch of people who have no prior experience with commuter rail to run a public relations and publicity operation and do a study of a proposed service that has already been studied a half dozen times before.

MX

I would like to eventually see this extension built, but now is not the time given the state's precarious finacial situation. Building the line now would be like equipping the Titanic with a new propeller while it is taking on water, post-iceburg.

Umm...construction jobs, additional rail jobs, ticket vendors, etc. If the feds are handing out big bucks for transit construction, why AREN'T they considering it?

RailBus63 wrote:I would like to eventually see this extension built, but now is not the time given the state's precarious finacial situation. Building the line now would be like equipping the Titanic with a new propeller while it is taking on water, post-iceburg.

So wait, you're saying that right now we're all doomed, like the passengers on the Titanic? I mean, where are the lifeboats? Quick!

It would have been nice to see this slipped into the stimulus bill, instead the goverment is now paying for free cells phones for those who dont work.