SEPTA Modeler: My Repaints And Paint Jobs

Ken S. wrote:

sullivan1985 wrote:Definitely use Walthers SolvaSet. I'm doing a "Modern Erie Lackawanna" fleet of SD80MACs and such. Used MicroSol on the first one. Decent results. Used SolvaSet on the rest and the difference is highly noticeable. I went over the first one and the decals look even better. You'll still have to pop some bubbles but the SolvaSet will hide any holes. Also, cut a bit closer to the decal. Get a pair of squizzers. They are excellent to trim after cutting them out of the sheet with an exacto.

My only other suggestion: get rid of those foot boards on your SPAX 66. Those began to disappear in the early 1970's.

What foot boards?

Thouse things that go where plows are on almost every locomotive today. If you dont want a plow, just take them off.

The front /bottom of the pilots have protruding steps which were outlawed awhile ago. Interesting choice for a road engine since both PRR and Reading had them in the day. We (SEPTA) actually had two geeps from Conrail/PC/PRR, they were numbered 7019 and 7028 and wound up as 90 and 91. They got the dark blue paint before ending up as trade-in fodder for the RL-1s. Septa got the 'fuzzy end of the lollypop' in that deal!
The U-boats from NJT would make good prototypes for modeling too.

ex Budd man wrote:The U-boats from NJT would make good prototypes for modeling too.

If I remember right, only the one unit got the Septa blue paint. Correct?

Yes, only one got 'blued'. I'm not sure if that was the one that suffered a crank shaft failure while on site. Railpace Magazine ran a great article on SEPTA's diesel fleet a while ago, it makes for interessting reading!

There were three U34CHs loaned to SEPTA in 1993 for the second phase of RailWorks. The units were 4152, 4154, and 4158. In exchange, SEPTA AEM7 2305 went to NJ transit.

4152 was in the NJT Bandit scheme, and was used exclusively on work trains. It was returned to NJ transit on the last week of august

4154 was the "SEPTA" painted one. I'm not sure what lead to its repainting, but it ran on the West Trenton line until it died on the road on August 9th. It was returned to NJ Transit on the last week of August

4158 had the standard disco stripes, and it ran on Lansdale trains, replacing the underpowered RL1s. When 4154 died, the 4158 took over West Trenton runs, canceling diesel powered Lansdale trains. It was returned September 4th.

I need to model a SEPTA U-Boat. That looked so hot with the Septa shoreliner cars behind it. I have a set of VRE Coaches on backorder, so far they located a cab car, these will become SEPTA Comet Is when I do a little twkeeing. The paint on those cars are already similar, all I need is tho throw SEPTA decals on it and make it a smooth side coach.

What I'm really hoping for is Atlas or Walthers to bring back the AEM-7 and Comet cars. I think it's a wrap for commuter cars with Walthers, as for the AEM-7s, if Atlas brought back the O Scale Comet Cars from the dead, they can easily do another AEM-7/ALP-44, I also gunna write a suggestion to MTH to make an HO Scale version of there upcoming ALP-46 locomotives. I think MTH is already working on HO scale version of their German cousins.

One more up date, I now own two Conrail blue GP40s and now I'm debating to keep them in Conrail colors and just add CSX patches to them or paint them full blown CSX. I'm modeling modern SEPTA so that mean theres no Conrail but I'm stuck in the middle with these two cuz I LOVE Conrail paint but the CSX paint job is calling to me. Uggg.... I removed the stepwells of the front of SPAX 66. I just need to paint the grab bars yellow.

As of now all commuter service I run in my layout is all SEPTA RDC operations. (Just a few Reading Company RDCs I had, I threw SEPTA patches on them.) I need to finish up #217 and get a buttload of Silverliner, IIs, IVs, and maybe even a 5.

N-Trizzy2609 wrote:I need to model a SEPTA U-Boat. That looked so hot with the Septa shoreliner cars behind it. I have a set of VRE Coaches on backorder, so far they located a cab car, these will become SEPTA Comet Is when I do a little twkeeing. The paint on those cars are already similar, all I need is tho throw SEPTA decals on it and make it a smooth side coach.

They're all still technically NJ transit, and the regular NJ transit ones did the majority of the runs. I'm not sure why the one got SEPTA paint.

What I'm really hoping for is Atlas or Walthers to bring back the AEM-7 and Comet cars. I think it's a wrap for commuter cars with Walthers, as for the AEM-7s, if Atlas brought back the O Scale Comet Cars from the dead, they can easily do another AEM-7/ALP-44, I also gunna write a suggestion to MTH to make an HO Scale version of there upcoming ALP-46 locomotives. I think MTH is already working on HO scale version of their German cousins.

The problem is that Walthers never payed SEPTA licenscing fees. this put them off to walthers. Everytime i find some, i buy them (i've got about 7 coaches and 2 cabs, just need another AEM7 and another three coaches to have two full trainsets. I have another 4 SEPTA coaches that are in rough shape that i bought for parts. I'm not sure the paint can be rehabbed).

Atlas may reissued the AEM7s (there have been several rumors of this being the case), but i doubt we'll see the SEPTA ones again. At the very end, it was SEPTA and MARC units that were left unsold. I hope they do (it might bring the price down in some places). \

MTH is a terrible option for HO. they insist on their DCS decoder, and its probably not gonna place nice with DCC. Tell MTH to clean up their act and get with the program. Then sell more HO stuff.

One more up date, I now own two Conrail blue GP40s and now I'm debating to keep them in Conrail colors and just add CSX patches to them or paint them full blown CSX. I'm modeling modern SEPTA so that mean theres no Conrail but I'm stuck in the middle with these two cuz I LOVE Conrail paint but the CSX paint job is calling to me. Uggg.... I removed the stepwells of the front of SPAX 66. I just need to paint the grab bars yellow.

You don't have to model the UP TO DATE modern day. In fact, it would be much easier to model SEPTA at the tail end of conrail when you think about it. Simpler paint schemes, less lighting work to do, and more models are available. If you love conrail so much, stick with it. Besides, plenty of CSX traveled over the former Reading lines during the Conrail era, So you can still run all of that stuff and it will fit in just fine.

As of now all commuter service I run in my layout is all SEPTA RDC operations. (Just a few Reading Company RDCs I had, I threw SEPTA patches on them.) I need to finish up #217 and get a buttload of Silverliner, IIs, IVs, and maybe even a 5.

So much for the modern era, they retired those in the early 80s!

Good luck getting a lot of MU cars. The Dummy Silverliner IVs already sold out (all i needed was one week to get the money, and BAM gone). All thats left are the intensely expensive powered units. I may even just break down and buy one in hopes of another run of Dummies (will ask Mike about them).

The problem is, no one is making these models to the point where you can afford to buy large groups. IHP has already decided on the short run of expensive units, so unless you're rich, you're not going to be able to get a group that way. Joe sells the stuff, but his models are not always accurate representations (check your Silverliner II against a photo and you'll see what I mean). Its not easy to fix the issues, and some things just shouldn't be on the model.

I've gotten lucky with my Arrow Kits, and i'm thinking i better just put in pre-orders for this stuff so that i can atleast have a few kits meant for me.

green_elite_cab wrote: 1.They're all still technically NJ transit, and the regular NJ transit ones did the majority of the runs. I'm not sure why the one got SEPTA paint.

The problem is that Walthers never payed SEPTA licenscing fees. this put them off to walthers. Everytime i find some, i buy them (i've got about 7 coaches and 2 cabs, just need another AEM7 and another three coaches to have two full trainsets. I have another 4 SEPTA coaches that are in rough shape that i bought for parts. I'm not sure the paint can be rehabbed).

2. Atlas may reissued the AEM7s (there have been several rumors of this being the case), but i doubt we'll see the SEPTA ones again. At the very end, it was SEPTA and MARC units that were left unsold. I hope they do (it might bring the price down in some places). \

3. MTH is a terrible option for HO. they insist on their DCS decoder, and its probably not gonna place nice with DCC. Tell MTH to clean up their act and get with the program. Then sell more HO stuff.

4. You don't have to model the UP TO DATE modern day. In fact, it would be much easier to model SEPTA at the tail end of conrail when you think about it. Simpler paint schemes, less lighting work to do, and more models are available. If you love conrail so much, stick with it. Besides, plenty of CSX traveled over the former Reading lines during the Conrail era, So you can still run all of that stuff and it will fit in just fine.

5. So much for the modern era, they retired those in the early 80s!

6. Good luck getting a lot of MU cars. The Dummy Silverliner IVs already sold out (all i needed was one week to get the money, and BAM gone). All thats left are the intensely expensive powered units. I may even just break down and buy one in hopes of another run of Dummies (will ask Mike about them).

The problem is, no one is making these models to the point where you can afford to buy large groups. IHP has already decided on the short run of expensive units, so unless you're rich, you're not going to be able to get a group that way. 7. Joe sells the stuff, but his models are not always accurate representations (check your Silverliner II against a photo and you'll see what I mean). Its not easy to fix the issues, and some things just shouldn't be on the model.

I've gotten lucky with my Arrow Kits, and i'm thinking i better just put in pre-orders for this stuff so that i can atleast have a few kits meant for me.

1. I'd still do it for a collection.
2. If a rerun was to ever happen from ATLAS, I think SEPTA would still be made because they released O Scale coach of SEPTA recently.
3. MTH engines just need a little tweeking with the decoder that's all. I've seen a South Shore MTH Little Joe being run under Bachmann DCC.
4. Not big on 90's SEPTA. I like todays SEPTA because I feel like it will never look the same 15 years from now when it's all Silverliner Vs.
5. Hence why I desperate for Silverliners! I'm still keeping the RDCs for fun but won't actually run them.
6. I don't care how much it cost, I'm probably going to end up asking my father to spot me and I'll pay him back.
7. Joe and I discussed this at a show. I very not happy with the windows and the lettering board but honestly, it look well enough to run. It could be much worse. It could've come out like Athearn's unscaled and ugly RDCs. Those were a disaster.

Thanks alot Cab. I like this advice, I need to get the bench work going now.

N-Trizzy2609 wrote:
2. If a rerun was to ever happen from ATLAS, I think SEPTA would still be made because they released O Scale coach of SEPTA recently.

maybe, but they still didn't sell well. That was the reason we haven't seen any AEM7/ALP44s in such a long time

3. MTH engines just need a little tweeking with the decoder that's all. I've seen a South Shore MTH Little Joe being run under Bachmann DCC.

It doesn't work that way. DCS is actually a DC system, with an alternate form of control. DCC uses AC power to transmit directions, and the DCC ability of the DCS decoder is EXTREMELY limited. it would take more than tweaking to switch over. the assumption of MTH is that his system was so good that everyone would jump ship to it. He doesn't care much about making his stuff functional on DCC.

4. Not big on 90's SEPTA. I like todays SEPTA because I feel like it will never look the same 15 years from now when it's all Silverliner Vs.

Today's SEPTA looks almost exactly the same.

6. I don't care how much it cost, I'm probably going to end up asking my father to spot me and I'll pay him back.

Unless you have a wealthy dad, you're not going to be able to keep up with it. the Standard series kits are very expensive, and already, the ones at the SEPTA store are drying up. The thinking is that most people want "a model of the train they take to work", and that few actually want to model a commuter train. If they do, they'll "find" the money. However, when its costs over $700 to have an 8 car arrow III train, it can be tricky. especially considering how short many of these runs of models are.

7. Joe and I discussed this at a show. I very not happy with the windows and the lettering board but honestly, it look well enough to run. It could be much worse. It could've come out like Athearn's unscaled and ugly RDCs. Those were a disaster.

Thanks alot Cab. I like this advice, I need to get the bench work going now.

I would argue that those old Athearn RDCs are actually much better than they look (the only problem being their shortness and their rubberband drives). The Athearn RDCs DO match their prototypes in terms of detail placement. Its a shame they didn't make them scale length. I thought about trying to graft the faces of one onto a P2k RDC to make a SEPTA snack-bar/coach, but i haven't gotten around to it. For what they were though, the Athearns weren't to terrible.

If the windows and the board are the things that bother you about that Silverliner II, then you haven't seen the prototype nearly enough. the roof contour is way off, and the step wells are also misshapen. The step wells may be repairable, but the roof can't be fixed (realistically anyway).

The athearn rdcs are correct for the canadian prototype built rdcs. The cnj had both the american budd and canadian budd models. The athearns can easily be modified to accept stanton drives, probably black beetles and if you can find it there's and ernst gearing kit to replace the rubber bands. They do roll decent and have good electrical pickup.

The main reason the ATLAS SEPTA and MARC AEM7s didn't do well was because there were (and still there are)no cars to go behind them. Walthers had stopped running the SEPTA Comet cars by 1999, and there is still no equivalent plastic model of the MARC cars. I know there are still a few outlets with the SEPTA models, but they are not at $50 prices.

I still like the Athearn RDC. Its detail is crisp and accurate for the 'new look' cars. It was made at a time when long cars were shortened to look good on smaller layouts. Athearn's RDC was also lowered a little. It really didn't look too out of place. It remained in production for nearly 50 years, and Athearn considered putting a geared drive in it in the late 1990s. Then, LLK did their model, and Athearn reportedly 'broke' the frame mould for the RDC at the same time. If you were really good, you could lengthen the Athearn RDC to get the correct number of windows and more prototypical appearance, and even cut them up to get RDC-2 and RDC-4 versions.

You would have liked SEPTA in the 1970s and 1980s. Some MP54s were still running in the 1970s, we had RDCs until 1983, and in the 1980s, we still had the Pioneer IIIs and Reading MUs, and then the Bombardier trains were delivered in 1987. That'd be my era of choice as a modeler anyway, since I grew up with them during that time.

Check the SEPTA Store for IHP's SEPTA models. They've made us their vendor of choice for the most accurate SEPTA LRVs, subway cars and MU cars money can buy and there are models to fit most budgets. We produce many items exclusively for the Store. If you like SEPTA MU cars, eventually we will have ALL the Silverliner classes available, with decals/markings for all of them and all eras, and available powered and ready to run with our all-new drive and trucks. We've now got the Silverliner IV cars, the new Vs will follow, we've had the Silverliner III kits floating around since 2005, and a super Silverliner II HO model is in the works. We'll even do the Pioneer III if there's interest (they probably will happen, since I want them for myself). Plus, Reading MUs, several different versions and paint schemes! With all this going on, I'm glad we don't have to do the MP54s, thanks to Con-Cor, that's more time to spend on the Silverliners and getting them perfect!

They are all painted and RTR models, we won't be doing kits. We think RTR models are the best way to represent these models, and SEPTA doesn't sell kits in their store.

Yes, they're done in short runs at a time to enable us to make a variety of models available, but if there is demand, we'll do many frequent short runs. Remember Doritos' old marketing slogan? Crunch all you want, we'll make more?

Mike Bartel
IHP
http://ihphobby.tripod.com

Mike@IHP wrote: You would have liked SEPTA in the 1970s and 1980s. Some MP54s were still running in the 1970s, we had RDCs until 1983, and in the 1980s, we still had the Pioneer IIIs and Reading MUs, and then the Bombardier trains were delivered in 1987. That'd be my era of choice as a modeler anyway, since I grew up with them during that time.

He's right, there is a lot of variety. Penn Central, Reading, and even Conrail Logos found their onto the commuter cars next to the SEPTA meatballs. You get a great mix of "Back in the day" and modern with that time period. Like Mike says, more of these cars are going to become available in the next few months.

The new stuff is cool, but hey, don't get rid of the old, its a lot of interesting history.

They are all painted and RTR models, we won't be doing kits. We think RTR models are the best way to represent these models, and SEPTA doesn't sell kits in their store.

Gotta ask, these Reading MUs will be painted as Green Cars, right? any chance of "blank" silver cars with separate decals?

Update:

I just scored a married pair of SEPTA Silverliner IVs from the SEPTA store. The last married pair, there two Singles left. I also got a single too, (hence why they have two now.) I already paid for it with my saved up money, now I'm working on putting my damaged Acela back into service. It has only 4 units now (no more first class car) and was involved in a fatal accident that took out my AEM-7. This is going to be a huge project.


Now for some entertainment.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=q42srrO9Rqc

were they dummies or powered? i hadn't realized the married pairs made it to the SEPTA store yet. I was just talking to Mike, and he made it seem like they were a little while away.

I know there were a bunch of powered units, but i wasn't interested at the time.

If you want a replacement for your first class car I have many Acela individual items for sale, I have each type of car if you dont already have the full train set. Power cars and all. Im looking for $30 a car for the individual coaches and $100 for power cars.