SEPTA and the missing Clockers

In the NJT forum, there is alot of discussion about the Clockers being cancelled by Amtrak, and NJT filling in only to Trenton. Would SEPTA be intuitive enough to run expresses, or limited's to Trenton? or are we out of luck as Philadelphians and going to have to fork out AM-Cash if we want a fast ride to Trenton & beyond?

A nice limited might be something like:
30th St
N Phila
Holmesburg
Cornwells Hts
Trenton

North Philadelphia? Who would get on or off at N. Philly? The place is a war zone! Just look at what the shelter closest to the R8 looks like.

I was coming back from NYP last week and we stopped at NPhila---i had to do a double take when I saw 10-15 people getting off there. This was a Amtrak regional train.

queenlnr8 wrote:North Philadelphia? Who would get on or off at N. Philly?

People transferring to and from the Chestnut Hill West. There is a small but dedicated group of long-distance commuters who rely on that connection.

I know that this station used to be a huge transfer point for the Chestnut Hill West Line to trains to New York and Washington. But, Amtrak has all but abandoned their station and the area is gone to the dogs.

SEPTA, the City or Amtrak should invest in the area to spruce it up. The whole complex is a nightmare of bad planning, budget over runs and neglect.

I am surprised someone hasn't gotten hurt on the R8 platforms with all the rust and broken canopies.

It is a shame that something so important in the past is so forgotten in the future.

queenlnr8 wrote:I am surprised someone hasn't gotten hurt on the R8 platforms with all the rust and broken canopies.

I use that station every day. I've never seen a canopy. I've seen a rotting wooden sieve that partially shades a wobbly bench, but nothing else...

queenlnr8 wrote:I know that this station used to be a huge transfer point for the Chestnut Hill West Line to trains to New York and Washington. But, Amtrak has all but abandoned their station and the area is gone to the dogs.

SEPTA, the City or Amtrak should invest in the area to spruce it up. The whole complex is a nightmare of bad planning, budget over runs and neglect.

I am surprised someone hasn't gotten hurt on the R8 platforms with all the rust and broken canopies.

It is a shame that something so important in the past is so forgotten in the future.

That area is a lot better than it was 15 years ago. Still bad but an improvement over what was there. At least Amtrak put in a new platform (the old one was worse than the R8). Now it's SEPTA's turn to spruce up their part. But with their budget problems, I doubt it.

SEPTA deadheads push-pull sets to Trenton every morning. In theory they could use those to replace the Clocker service to the affected station.

Anyone knows where that deadhead p/p comes from? Did it already do a run in from Trenton?

They complain about high operating costs (and this issue on the 15), why not pickup passengers at 30th, and charge a premium for an express to Trenton?

At one time, there was discussion in certain quarters about the possibility of using SEPTA AEM 7's and Bombardier coaches as part of an equipment pool with NJ Transit to provide a Clocker-type service between Phila. & NYC, much the same way equipment is pooled for the joint NJT/Metro North Port Jervis Line.

To my way of thinking, this approach makes a great deal of sense. This existing equipment can be utilized in lieu of SEPTA paying more cash (they will still have to fund operations), something they are going to scream about given the current financial circumstances.

NJ Transit, hard pressed for extra equipment at the moment, gains some relief by not having to produce as many extra vehicles as they would otherwise if operating the service unilaterally.

Win-win is what it is usually called. Except in the proprietary (my domain here / your empire over there) world of transportation agencies.

One quick plug: I don't know if the existing Clockers stop at Cornwells Heights, but the new service should.

The SEPTA trains involved in such an operation would have to have a couple NJT cars with rest rooms. Philly to New York with several stops is too long to go with bladder-unfriendly SEPTA trains.

SEPTA's doing (yet another) feasibility study on running through trains to NYC. That means they're spending money on it but not doing anything just now.

Lucius Kwok wrote:SEPTA's doing (yet another) feasibility study on running through trains to NYC.

Is that a SEPTA study or a DVRPC study? The PHL-NYP one-seat ride study that was completed recently was done by the DVRPC.

Don't recall when (though I will once I get the latest and greatest Mac OS, which remembers things much better than I do), but we reported on it in the DVARP newsletter.

It's a DVRPC study, called the "Regional Rail Improvement Study" in the SEPTA FY 2005 Capital Budget, but now that I read it again, it looks like it's old information. Sorry that I initially thought it was a SEPTA study.

You can use the Finder Find function in Mac OS 10.3 to search for content in both PDF and text files.

The August 2003 DVRP has a front-page article on this study.

Its disgusting the number of things we've spent money on studying but may never build. Let's recap

Cross County
SV Metro
Blvd Subway
BSL Extention to S. Jersey
Quakertown Rail
Newtown Rail (well it hasent been studied really---by DVRPC maybe)

yet none of these are in motion, and have all been on the drawing board for at least 5 years.

Its depressing that we have the infrastructure, or at least ROW to make the best rail connected area in the country, and we just sit here and do nothing!

Its disgusting the number of things we've spent money on studying but may never build. Let's recap

Cross County
SV Metro
Blvd Subway
BSL Extention to S. Jersey
Quakertown Rail
Newtown Rail (well it hasent been studied really---by DVRPC maybe)

yet none of these are in motion, and have all been on the drawing board for at least 5 years.

I'll be the devil's advocate.

I think this is sentiment shared by most people. But as much as it hurts to see $ spent doing endless planning, better to do the planning right before you jump into it. A poorly planned rail project would be nothing more than a waste of money.

The BSL, and NYC subways weren't built in a day either. It was about 8 years between when the BSL report was issued and when ground was broken. And this was a time when there was more of a push for mass transit(fewer cars).

One could make the argument that the more you things you plan, the less actually get built. Rather than pouring effort into one project, it is spread out over many. Which one is most important? Who gets to decide?