Route 15 Trolley Operation

I also ride a lot. I see far more trolleys than buses. Most of the time, the bus or the trolley is close to schedule. But not always. My expereince with the 15 is similiar to the bus routes, in terms of reliability. The drivers seem fine. One told me yesterday they are training a group that is transferring to their garage from elsewhere. Except for the regular bus that's out there, any other buses are driven by bus drivers not trolley drivers. He said this happens when there are no available trolley drivers. It happened all the time when the line was bus, but no one noticed. When a bus driver is on the line now; well, it sticks out. This driver also said his instructors were all former rail operators, mostly from Elmwood or the railroad. They taught him that there is no signal pre-emption on the line. The traffic signals belong to either the city or penndot and they provide the trolley only a short extension on an existing green signal phase. There is no action he takes since whatever happens, occurs automatically. I cannot verify this. Its hard to see this when you are riding. At any rate, it does not seem like we are delayed at traffic lights more than we should be (except for Girard which sometimes approachs at a crawl!) Where has all this talk about trolleys turning red lights into green lights come from in the first place? I heard that there were some problems today at Cumberland when a trolley pole got stuck in the overhead. My brother was waiting for an westbound trolley. A supervisor was there in minutes. He didn't stay to watch and took a diverted articulated bus (a 60?) to St. Joe's.

I was on the car behind it. What happened was, the pole dewired and hit a span wire. It must have hit so hard that the span got lodged in trolley shoe housing. That sucker was in there pretty good too. They actually had to remove the shoe housing from the pole then remove the shoe from the housing to free the span.

I heard that there were some problems today at Cumberland when a trolley pole got stuck in the overhead. My brother was waiting for an westbound trolley. A supervisor was there in minutes. He didn't stay to watch and took a diverted articulated bus (a 60?) to St. Joe's.

Yes it was a 60, apparantly word got out fast, I saw them send that 60 out in a hurry to Cumberland.

Where has all this talk about trolleys turning red lights into green lights come from in the first place?

This is where it originally came from:
http://64.233.161.104/search?q=cache:gb ... ject&hl=en

Girard Ave. Light Rail (Route 15) Signalization ProjectPhiladelphia$4,440,000$3,200,000Modernization and coordination of traffic signals along Girard Avenue resulting in a network of traffic signals whichcan be programmed for transit vehicle progression and preemption through tie-ins to SEPTA’s light rail locatornetwork or roadway detectors. Project Sponsor: SEPTA

From the horse's arse:

The PCC 2 cars are equipped with transponders that will delay or extend certain traffic signal phases along Girard Avenue. During the first days of service, the system was down and non-operational. It should now be on line. However, it is automatic and the operators do not manually intervene. Also note, the system does not "preempt" nor does it automatically change a red traffic signal to green.


Thank You,
SEPTA Customer Service

and more clarification...

The system utilizes a low priority preferential program for transit. There are 31 intersections along the line that are equipped to recognize a trolley when it is about 200 feet from an intersection. The computer will then extend an existing green phase by ten seconds. It does not preempt any red lights. Nor does it hold a green phase beyond the ten second window, no matter how close the trolley may be to the next car stop. The system does not recognize passengers waiting to board (or an empty island platform). The technology is now working as designed, although this is not always obvious to the average rider. SEPTA staff periodically audits it's performance and advises the City. The system is designed, owned and
maintained by the City Streets Department. The interface equipment on the trolleys are owned by SEPTA. As noted previously, operators have no direct role in the system's use as it is completely automatic.

That being the case, what is that flashing white strobe on the front of the PCC for then? And while we're on the subject, what's the orange one for (buses have them too)?

As far as the operators are concerned, I always seem to ride with the guys that hate the trolleys. One told me he hated it so much he's transferring to another district. I'm sure once the next pick rolls around in January we'll pick up some more operators who want to be on the 15, and filter out the ones that don't

jfrey40535 wrote: That being the case, what is that flashing white strobe on the front of the PCC for then? And while we're on the subject, what's the orange one for (buses have them too)?

The white one isn't a strobe it's a hi-beam light for if these cars ever find their way into the subway.

The orange strobe is an emergency light telling motorists that the vehicle is in some sort of distress.

As far as the operators are concerned, I always seem to ride with the guys that hate the trolleys. One told me he hated it so much he's transferring to another district. I'm sure once the next pick rolls around in January we'll pick up some more operators who want to be on the 15, and filter out the ones that don't

Keep in mind, a lot of the 10 operators took the transfer to drive the trolleys in the first place. I think by then you'll see the line run up to its full potential.

I was told the PCC-2's won't ever make it into the subway, without a few operating rule changes. I asked about that on the Super Saturday fantrip back in February, and the operator said that they can't go into the subway because they are not equipped with a roof-mounted high beam light, and because they are not equipped with the CBTC cab signal displays or equipment that will soon be required.

Hey you Muni guys out in San Francisco are you following this thread ? Look for a great opportunity in the near future.

Hey you Muni guys out in San Francisco are you following this thread ? Look for a great opportunity in the near future.

Please no! After watching buses drive by underneath for over a year, I finally saw one from the railroad bridge yesterday morning for the first time (hoping to ride it during lunch sometime soon). I have to say, even after following the negative goings on on this thread, it was still an awesome sight to see, and I hope I keep seeing it for the foreseeable future.

I dunno why this thread has been so negative cause if you go out on and Subway Surface line any day of the week, you'll see the same things happening and ya don't people sqwaking about how horrible the Subway Surface system is.

Well, it happened again: They had to shuttle bus the 15 from Cumberland Street to Westmoreland, when some trucker who forgot the height of his rig got wedged under the bridge carrying the Conrail tracks on Richmond Street this morning. He took out part of the overhead wire too.

I dunno why this thread has been so negative cause if you go out on and Subway Surface line any day of the week, you'll see the same things happening and ya don't people sqwaking about how horrible the Subway Surface system is.

Because the 15 is operating with alot of issues.
1. The trolleys are slower than the buses, even though we know they could be faster.
2. Operators are still learning the route and the equipment which contributes to delays
3. Auto drivers don't know what "NO BLOCKING TROLLEY MEANS"
4. The line is not 100% trolley. Its more like a trolley route augmented by buses, and we know SEPTA hates trolleys and want nothing more than to reconvert it.
5. The line barely has enough equipment to cover all runs. Any equipment failure will be countered with buses as there is no backup after the 18 PCC's on a line which has a peak demand of 15 or 16 cars.
6. SEPTA did not train enough operators. If a regular calls out sick, has a day off, the run is filled by a bus driver. Hopefully will be fixed in January.
7. Route 15 was horrbily operated as a bus line. Buses ran ahead of schedule, was covered mostly by Neoplans which frequently broke down. As a result, most 15 regulars are cynical as it is.
8. Subway surface lines run very smoothly. Most have had all their track replaced sometime within the last quarter century. Route 15 only had certain segments rebuilt. The last minute repairs by SEPTA are some of the worst peices of track on the line.

Need I say more?