Route 15 Startup

I think its also safe to say that the subway surface routes are successful because they go through neighborhoods where people don't have a choice but to ride SEPTA. 15 doesen't quite fall in that category, although it is heavy on the western half, but still not quite like 10/11/13/34/36. 15 is also a great feeder route for both BSS and MFL. But most people on my half of the line could care less, if not are against the trolley returning. Places like Richmond Street where the road is narrow could be troublesome where there are frequent delivery trucks that could block the tracks. Everyone's perception is that the trolley will take longer, get stuck, etc. So no one on this half of the line cares at all. A few were looking forward to it in hopes of rejuvenating the neighborhood, but those hopes faded quickly and were soon forgotten.

Why can't they use the new PCC II's on the West Philly routes so at least they are usd somewhere ?

PCC-II's are not equipped with the controls to interface with the new signal system in the tunnel.....how convenient!

Impressive to see SEPTA keeping pace with the MBTA on transit ineptitude. We've got a general manager describing light rail as an "outmoded and outdated transportation mode" and an authority spewing bus rapid transit, but this takes the cake. SEPTA's done wonders to alieniate riders, antagonize the neighborhood, turn the city government against the light rail project, and help destroy the perception of light rail as a viable alternative in the area, all for a mere $96 million of taxpayer dollars. Makes me wonder if the PCC-II's will ever turn a wheel in revenue service in Philadelphia.

For what it's worth, on my way to class today I saw a PCC-II heading north on the 38th St. diversion track at its intersection with Walnut, with "15" showing on the rollsign. More "testing"? Maybe they're starting to worry the bearings will sieze up sitting there in Elmwood!

I don't believe it - they pissed away all that money to rebuild the streetcars, tracks and wires and now they're not going to use them. This is sickening. And now SEPTA's crying about how broke it is. Well, if you're gonna spend $96 million to remanufacure PCC trolley cars and rebuild trolley tracks and wires and then let it just sit there over some community opposition - well, what do you expect is going to happen? Well, they also want to piss away $2 billion on the Metrorail alternative for Scuylkill Valley Metro, when they could have easily bought diesel push-pull trains and had service to and from Reading up and running by now and for way less money.

Yes, octr202 - the T and SEPTA regularly try to outdo each other for the title of "Worst Transit Agency". Look how the T continues to drag its feet on Arborway. That's not much different from this. Both the T and SEPTA are also full of very rude employees who don't care if someone is using the system for the first time. And both agencies are anti-streetcar and pro-bus. Bet you the NCL folks are smiling up from their graves over that.

Let me also point out - as I did on the MBTA forum - that Washington, DC has broken ground on a three-mile light-rail "demonstration" project on an abandoned railroad right-of-way in the Anacostia neighborhood that will include a transfer to the Metro at its Anacostia stop. Check it out at http://www.dctransitfuture.com. So it's going to happen. If only Philly (and Boston) could be as open-minded about light rail.

kevikens wrote:Why can't they use the new PCC II's on the West Philly routes so at least they are usd somewhere ?

The PCCII's use much more power than the original incarnations. Mostly for technology and HVAC. That required a complete rebuild & upgrade of the RT. 15 overhead wire system.

Just out of curiosity, what would happen if SEPTA just ran the trolleys out of Callowhill down that disputed piece of track without any traffic changes, and blocked traffic every time, as a way to protest the state of things?

I was wondering why SEPTA just couldn't escort the cars out of Callowhill with a T-car with its lights flashing. Would tie up traffic for only 5 minutes or less. That would prevent conflicts between cars and trolleys. A car should only be leaving the depot once every few hours. Why can't they do something simple like that?

There is no evidence that the 15 will be coming back any time soon, as there are still no wires under the Reading Railroad bridge at Lehigh ave. So if the cars were out, its probablly just for training or excersize. As long as the line is designated as trolley substituted by bus I suppose they have to let the 15 operators log some time behind the wheel? But that will all change in June.

I was wondering why SEPTA just couldn't escort the cars out of Callowhill with a T-car with its lights flashing. Would tie up traffic for only 5 minutes or less. That would prevent conflicts between cars and trolleys. A car should only be leaving the depot once every few hours. Why can't they do something simple like that?

Before SEPTA chose its "Serious about Change" slogan, they considered the alternative "Why do something simple when you can hold out for an exceedingly complex method?" (for an example see: Metro, Schyulkill Valley).

I remember a while ago Septa had meetings about the streetcar startup... are there, or will there be any more meetings about it? Since it is converting back to "bus" status, and I haven't heard a peep about it from ANY local media in at least 6 months, my hopes are defineitely not high about it. ..... my gut feeling is that the PCC II's will _never_ run along Girard Ave, at least as long as Septa is in control over it. <---please, please, provide evidence to the contrary!!!!

I'd be willing to bet in typical SEPTA shutdown fashion this entire project will be quietly swept under the rug and forgotten about by everyone except railfans and transit enthusaists.

Keep in mind that is only a rumor. There has been no official word from anyone about it yet.

True, but we're approaching the one year anniversary of the original start date, which itself was several years late. The longer it goes on and the quieter the media and politicians are about it, the more likely it will fade. Same thing happened to the Newtown line. They stopped it, talked about reopening it with German built DMU's and even went as far as testing the cars on the dormant line in 1985 or 86 then gave up and dismantled the line.

The 15 line wont be going anywhere, but I'd be worried if Kawasaki's started going to the great trolley yard in the sky and SEPTA started looking at the PCC's as replacements if they were so inclined to retrofit the cars with cab signals. But who knows. Half the fleet sits locked up in Callowhill depot, stranded, although at least their being kept indoors, while the rest sit at Elmwood getting occasional use.