Rochester's Subway tunnel to be filled in

A "20-minute drive to anywhere" is hardly a good argument against transit.

But we're talking about the proposed filling in of the Subway tunnel...

-otto-

The subject shifted from filling in the subway tunnel to proposals for rail transit in Rochester/Monroe County.

The area is very easy to drive around with employment and shopping mostly dispersed from downtown to the towns and villages surrounding the city of Rochester.

the city had 30 years to do something with the tunnel and so far nothings happened. the rest of the subway is gone from being filled in or turned into highways. if they havent done anything with it by now then they may as well fill it up and be done with it.

s4ny wrote:The area is very easy to drive around with employment and shopping mostly dispersed from downtown to the towns and villages surrounding the city of Rochester.

That's true except for the morning and evening commutes, when it can take over 45-60 to drive 11 miles in the event of accidents and/or bad weather (not uncommon in Roch). I know this for a fact because I 've had to do since I moved to Irondequoit in '99. Furthermore, downtwon workers usually have to pay for parking. For example, I had to pay $45 per month to park in a lot with cracked pavement and no attendant. For the "privilege" of parking in a garage, my ex-grilfriend could pay $100 per moth so she takes the bus instead. Last I knew, it was $56 per month for an unlimited bus pass.

So what does this have to do with the subway tunnel? Well, it could be part of an integrated mass transit sustem that would be immune to traffic jams, resistant to bad weather, less expensive than driving and more fuel efficient. There are still quite a few people working in downtown Rochester so I'm sure there would be riders for light rail. Trust me on this one- I worked in downtown Roch for 11+ years.

Better not fill it in yet!

Joe Bruno is holding out on his buddy G. Pataki on the NYC west side stadium. He wants $300 million for upstate lest NY City gets all the pork.

The Rochester Subway begins to make sense.

Plucked from the RRTC web site: http://www.ggw.org/rrtc/

The group opposed to filling in the Broad Street subway will be meeting
again this Wednesday, May 25th at 7:00 PM at the Highland Park Bowl
(interesting choice for a meeting location... I sure hope it doesn't rain).

As Christopher Burns had already reported, last week's tour/meeting
went well. There are a lot of people who are interested in stopping the
fill, and the informal group is led by key people from the Susan B.
Anthony neighborhood (Pepsey Ketavong and Barbara Hoffman). A lot of these
people had not heard of the fill project until now (the City had not
notified the Sector 3 neighborhood group about last year's meetings).
There are a lot of diverse opinions, and it is not clear at this point
what direction the group will go in.

Pepsy and other leaders of the group want to contact business leaders
and developers to see if they see a value in saving the tunnel and using
it for purposes such as light rail and a canal restoration. Some of
the people favoring a canal are open to using only part of the width of
the street for a canal, and keeping part for transit.

Unfortunately, light rail studies to date have never got to the point
where different downtown alignment options were evaluated (Broad Street
subway, surface of Broad, surface of Main Street, or some combination).
There are pros and cons for each alignment, and it's not clear if the
subway is the best option. However, we may want to continue to ask that
a decision on the subway be delayed until the new Mayor is office. One
person on the tour reported that Mayoral candidate Bob Duffy was in
favor of delaying the fill project. One option may be to allow the
portion from Industrial Street to Brown Street (the northern segment of the
subway, which is in the worst shape) to be filled in while delaying a
decision on the segment from Industrial Street (near the R&S portal) to
Exchange Street.

Thanks,
DeWain Feller

Duffy's proving his worth, again. I'd vote for him for mayor if I still lived in the city. Filling this tunnel in haste may prove to be a folly if Bill Nojay's group ever comes up with a viable light rail plan.

Restoring a CANAL?!? Oh brother - what next. How about designated horse and buggy trails! Instead of making it small, let's make it real big, and use the fast ferry for commuters up the canal!!

The subway was cool in its time, but it's gone. While light rail may someday make sense here, there is not enough need at the present and sooner or later that whole thing will need maintenance. Pack it full of dirt, bore holes from above, and pressure-grout it.

Chances are that if some sort of transit system is built in the future, the current subway will not meet the requirements in one way or another and they'll start from scratch anyway.

BR&P wrote: Restoring a CANAL?!? Oh brother - what next. How about designated horse and buggy trails! Instead of making it small, let's make it real big, and use the fast ferry for commuters up the canal!!

The subway was cool in its time, but it's gone. While light rail may someday make sense here, there is not enough need at the present and sooner or later that whole thing will need maintenance. Pack it full of dirt, bore holes from above, and pressure-grout it.

Rochester has never really had to rely on attempts at promoting tourism since its founding in the industrial age. Now, with many of its former industries gone and the remaining ones but shadows of their once might presence, a restoration of a segment of the Erie Canal might not be as outlandish as it sounds, especially if undertaken in concert with other projects (including rail) to promote tourism in the area. (San Antonio's Riverwalk comes to mind here. Even the proposals for developing a linear park along Onondaga Creek in Syracuse are similar in nature.)

The proposals to fill in the old subway because "we don't need it" remind me of the wisdom displayed by NYSDOT when the Route 104 expressway was built back in the 1970's between Hard Road and Holt Road. To save money, expressway traffic was diverted onto what had been designed as service roads parallel to the intended path of the highway and the highway was left unconstructed. Then, to save even more money, NYSDOT began to remove the ramps from the intended highway ROW for use in other projects. It was only when Governor Cuomo needed support in the State Senate for a transportation bond issue in the mid-1980's that an agreement was reached to stop removing the bridge ramps and actually include the completion of the highway as a listed project in the bond act.

And then there is the lovely Lake Ontario State Parkway that just kind of disappears and awaits completion in the 22nd century.

The parkway is an absolute jem!
sure it doesent go all the way to Niagara Falls, and it does kind of end abruptly, but thats quite a ways west of Rochester, and isnt really an issue for those that use the parkway in the Rochester region..

I use the parkway all the time, love it! no trucks!
IMO, the Ontario State Parkway is the best highway in the entire Rochester region..cant beat it.

yes it would be nice if it went all the way to Niagara Fall..but even that isnt a huge issue, because you can just hop on 18 to finish the journey, and thats still a nice quiet rural road..I take the parkway all the time to N.F.
beats the thruway by far..
Scot

Parkways? Save it for Highway.net. :-)

The grassroots organization that has been meeting in Rochester is organizing some tours of the Subway tunnel.

http://www.frontiernet.net/~secr/tours.htm

-otto-

For those of you interested in the fight against filling in the subway tunnel, check out this link:
www.chillthefill.org

Special thanks to Channel 8 (WROC) for putting this in their newscast earlier this week.

The City realized that they still own the Subway tunnel, and do not want unauthorized persons in the tunnel. i.e., any tours conducted without their permission will be considered trespassing, and therefore, all future tours into the tunnel have been cancelled.

UPDATE
S.E.C.R. acknowledges that the City of Rochester has spent considerable time and resources developing a plan for the former Rochester Subway site. We respect their efforts. Due to media coverage & overwhelming response to our June 5th tour, The City has voiced their sincere concern for the safety of the public and our supporters. Given that S.E.C.R. and the City share a concern for public safety, we are temporarily suspending our tours. We ask for your patience and continued support while we work toward resolving these matters.

http://frontiernet.net/~secr/index.shtml

-otto-

aw man! and I was planning on going this Sunday!
I hope they can arrange some more tours before the opportunity is gone forever..

Scot

More than 300 showed up for the last tour. Obviously someone was taking notice in City Hall.