Report it to CSX?

I was sitting at Coldwater Rd crossing yesterday (in traffic) and noticed the westbound track on the west side of the crossing really moving up and down. Like...a lot moving up and down, more than I've ever seen before on a track.

I checked it out later on and saw that the ballast has slid away and there a mudhole there. I don't know if there is an official term for this but it's one of those places where water has seeped in and saturated the soil. When it rains and a train goes over the spot, mud shoots all over covering everything. With the soil gone, the ballast settles. I've seen them before but this one seems extreme.

So the train comes off the crossing and immediately bumps down and then bumps up. Just eyeballing it seemed like 3 inches of movement but I'm no expert.

The train I saw was a westbound empty autorack and although I like waiting at a crossing for a train to go by, this time I was ready for evasive action in case something happened. Although, I probably couldn't react fast enough if something did happen.

Anyway, should I report it to CSX or not? Seems like a bad spot for a passenger train or fast TV train or something.

I've heard lots of back and forth on this list about CSX hating it when people call in.

Charles

I think it should be reported, but not necessarily to CSX..
that would be like reporting a bully to the bully, instead of the principal..
so who is the "principal" in this case?
I dont know..
Elliot Spitzer's office perhaps?
he is becoming the new "Ralph Nader" it seems..
"Mr. public safety"
usually I find him annoying, but in this case his office would probably jump on this and get something done!

When safety is concerned, and the potential for disaster and death is there, (like an Amtrak train derailing..or even a freight train)
it should be reported!

I would try CSX first, give them an opportunity to fix it themselves,
then if its not fixed within 48 hours then go over their heads..
maybe Spitzer, or even the local police..
if you say there is the potential for a derailment, and death, (which there clearly is) then these agencies should get on it..its their job.

do trains at least slow down for that section??
the crews must know its there..

http://www.oag.state.ny.us/

Scot

I would call CSX, let them know you observed an unsafe track condition near such and such milepost, and then walk away from the situation.

Charles – I pondered that same “defect” while waiting for a train there early Wed morning.

It’s however not unique. There’s an even larger one about ½ mile west of Chili Jct on the south (#2?) track – mud is sprayed probably 75’ in every direction.

Otto’s advice to call it in to CSX then walk away is probably right on. ...FB

Any such call to CSX will have little credibility, I'm afraid. It's normal for the track structure to flex this much under traffic. The pumping of mud, while nasty looking and somewhat alarming, does not pose an imminent danger to train operations. It indicates a lack of drainage due to fouled ballast, and mostly affects the longevity of wood ties.

As long as the rails are kept within gage tolerances (can you measure that with your eyes from a legal, non-trespassing distance without a track gage?), CSX will not be concerned a great deal. Chances are the person who inspected this track last noted this observed condition.

Here's an interesting link to the 2000 CSX FRA Track Audit (Adobe Reader required):

http://www.oshadavidson.com/CSXAudit.pdf

Get Adobe Reader here: http://www.adobe.com/products/acrobat/readstep2.html

There's no harm in reporting the condition to CSX. If they are aware of the situation and it is indeed not dangerous, then no time or effort will have been wasted. On the other hand, if CSX is negligent and an accident later occurs, you can always let the media know you reported this to them.

JD

>rolls eyes<

This isn't about getting anyone in trouble or likewise earning a medal. If you think you see an unsafe condition, report it, then walk way (I mean, walk way figuratively... as in no need to follow up with more phone calls). As LCJ pointed out, "mud-pumpers" aren't dangerous, they just wear down the infrastructure. For the rest of you who want to play "gotcha!" with CSX, have fun.


-otto-

scottychaos wrote:I would try CSX first, give them an opportunity to fix it themselves,
then if its not fixed within 48 hours then go over their heads..
maybe Spitzer, or even the local police..

I don't think that the local or state authorities can really do anything until an accident happens, and perhaps not even then. It's normally out of their jurisdiction, unless it's a case of deliberate negligence. That's the only way they could file criminal charges.

I believe the feds would have the final authority in this situation (should CSX fail to act). An agency like the FRA or NTSB should be appropriate. You could also try contacting your local congressional representative.

Just curious, what track was this spot on? I've been passing through there both ways on the dewitt frieght pool and haven't notice anything terribly rough there. Yes, there is a dip but it's not as bad as you'd think. There's plenty out there and are generally not a problem for us. When we feel something thats geting severe we report it to the Dispatcher and they send a track man to check on it. Believe me if we feel something out of the ordinary, we call it in. If you still are concerned , call the 800 number on the crossing and report the problem. I'll watch for it myself next trip and see how it feels.

roadster wrote:Just curious, what track was this spot on?

Hey Roadster - In mid-April I grabbed a photo of the one near CP382. Punch here:
http://albums.photo.epson.com/j/ViewPho ... p=72154061 (view west down track 2)

and here:
http://albums.photo.epson.com/j/ViewPho ... p=72154062 (side view looking north):

It's a couple hundred yards west of the CP382 west signal bridge. ...FB

As railfans, it's not our job to play track inspector and call in every little defect we find. Let the railroaders worry about the railroad. If you're that concerned about it - don't hang around that area lest you get smooshed by a derailing train.

Rail flexes - and it should. If it didn't - then that's when I'd worry as it would be an indication that it's too brittle and likely to fail soon.

Like Roadster said - the crews definitely know when something's wrong and will call it in.

If you guys haven't noticed, CSX has had the track gangs in the area recently - replacing Track 1 with new CWR, new ties, ballast work, etc... Track 2 will be due for TLC soon I'm sure.

Otto Vondrak wrote:>rolls eyes<

This isn't about getting anyone in trouble or likewise earning a medal. If you think you see an unsafe condition, report it, then walk way (I mean, walk way figuratively... as in no need to follow up with more phone calls). As LCJ pointed out, "mud-pumpers" aren't dangerous, they just wear down the infrastructure. For the rest of you who want to play "gotcha!" with CSX, have fun.


-otto-

I'm not into 'getting anyone in trouble', or playing "gotcha!"either. But on two occasions I've called the CSX emergency number to report a malfunctioning crossing gate, and both times the person who answered had a dismissive tone and generally acted like I was bothering him. Why even bother posting the emergency number then? If they choose to downplay or ignore calls from the few citizens who take the time to report something unsafe, and something bad happens, it's newsworthy.

JD

FarmallBob wrote:Hey Roadster - In mid-April I grabbed a photo of the one near CP382. Punch here:
http://albums.photo.epson.com/j/ViewPho ... p=72154061 (view west down track 2)

and here:
http://albums.photo.epson.com/j/ViewPho ... p=72154062 (side view looking north)

Oh that's nothing... that's a small pothole as far as the RR's concerned.

Now if you want track conditions to be concerned about, here's a shot I took of the Arcade & Attica between Curriers and North Java showing a fine example of what "excepted track" is. This was two years ago (I would hope they've improved this section since then - yikes!)...

Mudspots are frequent here along the Tier too. Flexing rail is OK to a point, but to watch the spikes pull out to over half their length and see the mating joint flattened over from the wheels hitting it....not so re-assuring. One particular spot I did bother to mention, and within a week a somewhat helpful 'bandaid' repair did happen. (this was track two jointed rail and no doubt low on the list of things to touch.

I've called NS about three times to report damaged/malfunctioning crossings and they are extremely courtious and usually quick to respond (pity the maintainers' life though), and I can't complain on that account.

Tom H>

I completely agree with Otto here. While we are all concerned and want
to "help", they (csx) don't want it. I've seen and still do see things that
cause concern almost weekly. Ditch lights out, pounding wheels, cars
really rockin and such. I've long givin up "helping". They don't want it.

STEAM ON
/--OOO--~-oo--oo-