Report it to CSX?

Re: Side view of wet hole near MP 383

Looks to me that the spikes are (or were, at least) still firmly embedded in the ties. Alignment looks pretty good, too. Yeah, that's a big messy pumper that will only get worse without some attention.

When the inspector notes a serious problem there, he'll put a slow order on it. If there's no slow order now, well....

If someone wants to call Jacksonville for that, hey, knock yourself out!

Someone was standing pretty darn close to the track (like fouling it) to get that first shot.

We seem to have a number of "amateur track experts" on here. These
things are mud spots and while they look like hell and can and do become
rough spots, trains can continue to operate over them.
I am sure that the railroad is aware of this condition, they may not be in a
rush to correct it.
You people calling something like this in to the railroad are just calling
attention to yourselves that you are in the area and may well be
trespassing on railroad property as well.
Go and enjoy watching the trains and taking your pictures but stay off the
telephone and do not call attention to yourselves.
If I were the superintendent of that railroad and my people were being
pestered by well meaning people, I would order the police out to get the
trespassers and all the others away from the railroad tracks in the
affected areas.
Noel Weaver

Nydepot Writes:
"I was sitting at Coldwater Rd crossing yesterday ..."

Noel Weaver Writes:
"You people calling something like this in to the railroad are just calling
attention to yourselves that you are in the area and may well be
trespassing on railroad property as well.
Go and enjoy watching the trains and taking your pictures but stay off the
telephone and do not call attention to yourselves."

He was on public property witnessing this event. It appears nobody was trespassing. Not all railroad related abnormalities are so well hidden. Some are seen from the highways on occasion <Ripleys> believe it or not ... and by people having AT LEAST half a brain about railroading (not to make railfans look smart by any means). But if any one of us as 'Schmoe Average' should just place our full and unconditional trust with the know it all, can be everywhere at every moment superman track crews/inspectors that they have everything under control all the time ..... this is complacency - Period!

Noel Weaver wrote:If I were the superintendent of that railroad and my people were being
pestered by well meaning people, I would order the police out to get the
trespassers and all the others away from the railroad tracks in the
affected areas.
Noel Weaver

WOW, where do I begin???

Okay, you said "my people were being pestered". CSX has a large emergency report center, which can be contacted by calling 1-800-232-0144. These people are there just to be "pestered". Without people "pestering" them, they wouldn’t have a job. CSX counts on calls from people passing by crossings to report problems, why else would they put this number in plain sight for people to call??

Next, you would "order the police"?? LOL, Is anyone reading this in any position to order the police?? Is George W. reading this? Cus perhaps he could. Not many other people, including railroad officials can pick up a phone and order a police officer anywhere.

Now, if you are such a good "superintendent" why in your right mind would you "order" the police out to remove someone from a public road, when they were just acting concerned??

I think you need go get your head examined buddy!!

SimTrains wrote:

Noel Weaver wrote:If I were the superintendent of that railroad and my people were being
pestered by well meaning people, I would order the police out to get the
trespassers and all the others away from the railroad tracks in the
affected areas.
Noel Weaver

WOW, where do I begin???

Okay, you said "my people were being pestered". CSX has a large emergency report center, which can be contacted by calling 1-800-232-0144. These people are there just to be "pestered". Without people "pestering" them, they wouldn’t have a job. CSX counts on calls from people passing by crossings to report problems, why else would they put this number in plain sight for people to call??

Next, you would "order the police"?? LOL, Is anyone reading this in any position to order the police?? Is George W. reading this? Cus perhaps he could. Not many other people, including railroad officials can pick up a phone and order a police officer anywhere.

Now, if you are such a good "superintendent" why in your right mind would you "order" the police out to remove someone from a public road, when they were just acting concerned??

I think you need go get your head examined buddy!!

Hey "MAC" I do not need to have my "head examined". I have been
around the railroad for a long time and have occasionally gotten stopped
by someone who thought they might have seen something.
Right in the area mentioned on here some years ago, I was going east on
a monster coal train with two brand new Norfolk Southern units. The
dispatcher called us on the radio just west of CP-373 (Rochester) and told
us we had a problem, smoke or firein this case about 15 from the head
end. I could look back and see that there was no smoke but we stopped
and the conductor walked back to check, meantime the railfans were all
over the place with their cameras, radios and cell phones. Yes, the brakes
were applied because I applied them, crossing over after another train
cleared. Well, the conductor walked back to check the entire train as he
was told to do so and we took a huge loss of time. The dispatcher took it
too because he already had things lined up his way and had to undo all or
a good part of what he had done.
Maybe the people were on the public streets at Coldwater or at Chili but
there were plenty of times that they were not too.
I recall one westbound trip when there were three individuals on the right
of way and very close to the track close to a bridge over a main highway.
They were much too close for their own good and we called the dispatcher
but not on the radio but the conductor called on his cell phone. Conrail,
at that time, police got there quite quickly and nailed them, they got a
written warning. I could cite more but I think I have put my point here.
The telephone numbers are available at all crossings and they are for
emergencies but for somebody to report a mud spot or some other thing
that they imagine is wrong. An emergency condition could consist of a
stuck vehicle on a crossing, an accident fouling the tracks or a crossing
signal that is activated when there are no trains in the area but it is not to
be used lightly. I actually found most of the rails around Rochester to be
pretty decent people. There was, however, one person who was often in
the Fairport area late in the evening and when we were going west, this
person would take our picture with a flash camera. I did not like this and
one night I called the dispatcher on the radio and told him. I did not have
that problem again after that radio call.
Even at CP-382 in Conrail days, most of the cars parked there were
parked on railroad property but we did not care, most of these people
were pretty decent at least with me.
One last thing, if the dispatcher (he/she represents the superintendent) calls for the railroad police to remove people from railroad property, rest assurred, they will do just that. Further even on public property if a railroad police offices tells you to move on, you had better do it.
NO, I am not about to get my head examined.
Noel Weaver

So many assumptions being made and people pissed off at each other. As the originator of this post, maybe it's time to have Otto lock the thread!

In case someone missed it, the post that Bob made with photos is of a different mudhole, not the one I was referring to although he did say he had seen mine. I was not railfanning. I was on public property, first in line at a crossing waiting for a train to go by. After the train left, I continued on my way not wanting to hold up the 20 other cars behind me.

"Maybe the people were on the public streets at Coldwater or at Chili but
there were plenty of times that they were not too."

Again, I was IN A CAR WAITING AT A CROSSING, NOT ON THE GROUND WATCHING TRAINS, WANTING TO CONTINUE MY RIDE LIKE EVERYONE ELSE AT THE CROSSING. HONEST, THE LIGHTS AND GATES WERE FORCING ME TO SIT THERE. Not every person who sees something on a railroad is hunched over on the bushes waiting for a train.

I've seen hundreds of mudholes. The majority when dry are fine. This was different. This was a lot of track flexing just after coming off a stable crossing. It was the most I've ever seen rail flex in my 25 years of watching trains.

My drive by today even had a small group of people from McGregor's out pointing at it while another westbound went by. Although if you're drinking it may be more humorous watching the cars go up and down rather than worrisome.

Charles

Noel Weaver Said:

"Further even on public property if a railroad police offices tells you to move on, you had better do it."

I don't believe he has very much authority off railroad property, however, if I am sitting outside on the porch of that restaurant on Coldwater Rd, for example, (oh what's the name of it now?) ... anyways ... drinking my favorite beverage, and along comes Mr. Cinder Dick wanting to get all Barney Fife with me while I'm drinking and looking down the rails, not only would I move on, but I would invite him to tell me to do so Then him, his supervisor, and I can all have a nice cozy chat about the fundamentals of RR law enforcement (especially where his boundaries are).

I guess you need to let the "experts" (the RR people) trust that they know how to maintain their ROW's. Take this to the extreme. 100's of people daily calling the RR's to check this and that. The RR's would be paralyzed checking each and every one of these, not to mention all the staff the RR's would need to support these calls. I know I wouldn't want people at my job flooding me with calls every time they thought they saw something. And I have a manufacturing job.

Actually, maybe this could become a CSX or NS competitive strategy. Each one calling the other's hot-line to shut down that railroad to improve their own performance........LOL

Noel, man, show some brains, eh? Must've shook something loose banging all the mud holes and flat spots on the northland....

I was concerned since my mud hole of interest was obviously so far neglected. Also happened to be at a public crossing directly next to a local business and even in an area with a history of dumping trains. Pulled spikes between the rail joints in each direction, and both sets of joint bars cracked on each rail.....I did the railfan thing and looked up FRA standards and both sides of a joint with cracked joint bars were enough to condemn it. Lord knows, it had to be a real bad thing if the FRA said it was a bad thing.

I emailed a couple pictures of it to one of the engineers that actually ran over it, and I asked around and got an email address to send it to (unofficial- it was 'someone' whom may or might not have something related to fixing it) and that someone agreed it needed fixing quickly. They also stated they just weren't allowed to spend the time working on that particular track that it needs for certain reasons and knew the problem existed. Now the area in question has a couple new joint bars, and the spikes had the wedges plugged into the holes and re-spiked, but is still getting pounded from the undermining of the ballast.

I don't call for misc. reasons, I don't impose my theory of train operation upon any rail employee and realize the crews do know more about what I see than I'll ever. But aside from a moron- it's not hard to figure what merits at least mentioning to the right people, and I agree with you definition of 'emergency' as something immediately threatening- not possibly threatening. Personally I'd feel guilty had I not tried to say something about a potential area and then maybe have to report an emergency about it later.

Tom H>

Upon seeing any track condition that looks to be unsafe:

(1)Report it to CSX as a courtesy-only; while
(2)ALSO reporting it to both the Federal and State agencies in
charge of making sure that the railroads maintain safe
operations that do not hazard the public. These agencies
should have the power under law to levy heavy fines for
FRA-type violations.
(3)Tell CSX (or any other railroad) when calling that you are
reporting the situation, AND the follow-up complaints to
the FRA and State agencies, simultaneously.

No responsible railroad enthusiast should give a damn what CSX (or any
other railroad) "thinks" about a call reporting a potential hazard.
Same for the track maintenance department, which is a part of CSX
and whose employees are told by management what to do and where
to do it.

[/b]

There is a chance reporting problems will prevent a derailment and save lives - thats a good thing.

There's also the possibility of making a pest of yourself because you don't know what you're talking about. That's a bad thing.

The maintenance standards for track are quite complex - the rules themselves take up quite a few pages and the interpretations of those rules can be a challenge. Some things may be black and white but other things may not be as bad as they seem. There are various classes of track with tighter standards for higher classes, lower standards for lower classes. The better the track the higher the speed allowed. If you have "excepted" track you can't have passenger trains and are limited to 10 MPH, but you can get away with some pretty shabby track. A joint pumping mud, in and of itself, is not necessarily a defect.

Think of your own job - whatever it is. Would you want somebody who does not work there calling your company and commenting?

Hey - one of the first rules of railroading is: when in doubt the safe course must be taken. So if there's something really wrong report it. But when the companies are deluged with calls from armchair track inspectors and wanna-be's, be prepared for a more hostile reception on and around the railroad.

Aji-tater wrote:Think of your own job - whatever it is. Would you want somebody who does not work there calling your company and commenting?

This has been said on many threads. While I can understand it compared to probably most of our jobs...

For example, where I work there is no forum for calling and complaining about anything we do. We have no 800 number, complaint desk, no nothing.

...So in that context, the above quoted phrase is true. You wouldn't want anyone calling and commenting or complaining. There is no procedure for that.

On the other hand, CSX DOES have a 800 number set up for complaints. They actually have numbers setup for all kinds of things. They even have a number for non-emergency environmental problems according to their website.

So, calling CSX and commenting or complaining is not a problem. They are setup to specifically handle these calls and route them to the correct department. And there is no quota or issue with any number of people calling and complaining.

Someone earlier said they wouldn't want a person calling up and complaining about their manufacturing job. Right! But in CSX's case, they setup phone lines for people TO CALL and comment/complain.

Charles

I admit I'm not up to date on the various CSX response lines. I know they have a number on the crossings for signal malfunctions but other than that I don't know. If as nydepot says they DO invite comments go for it.

One of the previous posters mentioned 2 new NS units and lots of railfans, with an apparently phony call about fire or brakes. Convenient for photos but it will sure get the railroads pizzedov in a hurry!

The issue is closed, and this is why I can't go on vacation anymore. What is it, is the heat getting to us all, or do we need to switch to de-caf for a week. Absurd arguments going on here.

[locked]

-otto-