Oregon buys 2 Talgo trainsets

The reason the Cascades Talgos are operated under a waiver is that the FRA changed the crashworthiness standards after the Talgos were ordered by Amtrak and WSDOT. At the time the trains were ordered, they were FRA crashworthy. But by the time they were put in service, the FRA had changed the crashworthiness standards, leaving the Talgos non-compliant and Amtrak had to gain a waiver from the FRA to continue operations. That's why you always see a heavyweight locomotive or NPCU on each end of the trains, plus there must be an unoccupied baggage car and unoccupied power car at each end of the trainset. The unoccupied cars are supposedly the crush zone that will protect the passenger-occupied cars from damage in the event of a head end or tail end collision. The WI Talgos appear to have enough strength in the cab car and the end car to meet FRA requirements.

I hope that HEP is available from either the cab car or the locomotive. Looking at the technical drawing it appears that the cab car is connected semi-permanently to the trainset while the end car is fitted with a knuckle type coupler for connecting to the locomotive. Hopefully, if the generator in the cab car fails, the trainset will still have a backup HEP source. My understanding is that, most of the time, the Cascades operate using HEP from the locomotive and only use the on-board generator as a back-up.

If you have time to search for it, the waiver application and comments provided by Talgo to the FRA are online somewhere. It's interesting to read the comments and responses, one quickly realizes that Europeans and Americans are approaching railroad safety issues from completely different universes.

So when am I riding talgos to Milwaukee? Lol

The first trains are scheduled to roll off the assembly line in July 2011.

Do we know if the first new Talgo set will have to go to Colorado for testing and, if so, how long that usually takes?

mkellerm wrote:Do we know if the first new Talgo set will have to go to Colorado for testing and, if so, how long that usually takes?

I think it's a safe bet that it will. I don't know how long that testing usually takes, but I think it's probably measured in weeks rather than months.

Vincent wrote:The first trains are scheduled to roll off the assembly line in July 2011.

Thanks. I'll be looking foward to this.

Did anyone see the news today from the Federal Transit Administration?

Vice President Biden Announces Nearly 200 New Recovery Act Transit Projects in 42 States

WASHINGTON – Vice President Joe Biden and U.S. Transportation Secretary Ray LaHood today announced funding for 191 new Recovery Act transit projects in 42 states and Puerto Rico that will help transform the nation’s infrastructure and support thousands of jobs across the country. In making the over $600 million in new awards, the Federal Transit Administration met an aggressive deadline to award 100 percent of its Recovery Act transit formula dollars by March 5....

The grants include "Oregon Department of Transportation: $38.4 million will use to purchase two high-speed passenger rail station sets for use in commuter rail service."

That's remarkably close to what Oregon will pay for the Talgo sets. Is this the purchase announced a few days ago, or a separate purchase? Is Talgo about to make yet another sale to Oregon?

http://www.jsonline.com/news/milwaukee/85834502.html

From the Milwaukee Journal Sentinel

By Larry Sandler of the Journal Sentinel
Posted: March 1, 2010

Milwaukee's vacant Tower Automotive Corp. plant will be the site of a new factory to build passenger trains for use in Wisconsin, Oregon and possibly other states, Ald. Willie Wade said Monday. The plant could create "hundreds of jobs," far more than the original projection of about 80 positions, Ald. Bob Bauman added. Wade confirmed that the Spanish train manufacturer Talgo has selected the Tower site for its new plant. He said Gov. Jim Doyle would announce details at a 10 a.m. Tuesday news conference on the Tower grounds. Talgo spokeswoman Nora Friend declined to comment on the plant site, saying the decision had not yet been announced. A Doyle spokesman did not immediately return a call seeking comment.

Wisconsin has a $47.6 million deal with Talgo to build two 14-car trains for Amtrak's Milwaukee-to-Chicago Hiawatha line, with an option to buy two more for a planned extension of that route from Milwaukee to Madison. The federal government has awarded the state $810 million in stimulus money for the Milwaukee-to-Madison route, which will start service at 79 mph in 2013 and reach 110 mph by 2015, plus another $12 million for upgrades on the Milwaukee-to-Chicago route.

[You must include fair use quote when posting links to news stories. -omv]


A factory in Milwaukee has won the Talgo deal.

not may, it has won the deal.

Per a conversation with Scott Leonard @ Amtrak: Taglo's will be built in Milwalkee.

travelrobb wrote: The grants include "Oregon Department of Transportation: $38.4 million will use to purchase two high-speed passenger rail station sets for use in commuter rail service."

That's remarkably close to what Oregon will pay for the Talgo sets. Is this the purchase announced a few days ago, or a separate purchase? Is Talgo about to make yet another sale to Oregon?

This is the same purchase that was announced a few days ago. Oregon is using federal funds to acquire the new Talgo sets, so the first announcement was Oregon announcing how they intended to use the funding and the most recent announcement was the Feds announcing they had approved Oregon's use of the money.

AMTK1007 wrote:I believe, but cannot confirm that Missouri, Illinios and Michigan are also considering cars based on the Califronia car model....

In my opinion, that car makes more sense in the midwest..

Wisconsin Missed the boat by ordering talgos, because nothing significant will be gained by using them, EVEN if they are used going to Minneapolis/St Paul. the time gained would only ammount to 5-6 minutes, from what I have been told.

I believe the gains are more than that....

....er, except I think the gains don't arrive until different locomotives are attached, which is planned for the "future". I think I remember reading that the full benefit of the tilting on low speed curves was not available with inappropriate locomotives (am I imagining things?)

Just to remind people: Oregon is buying 2 trainsets in order to maintain the Portland-Eugene service. They were previously borrowing Washington State's Talgos, and Washington wanted 'em back to expand Portland-Seattle and Seattle-Vancouver,BC service. That is all there is to this -- it is driven entirely by the state of Washington. I am sure Oregon is buying Talgos largely to maintain compatible equipment in the Pacific Northwest train pool. Instead of Amfleets, Horizons, or Superliners substituting for out-of-service Talgo fleet north of Portland, they will probably keep that all-Talgo and do any substitutions south of Portland where it doesn't hurt the schedule.

This is smart. It doesn't really generalize.

We all know Wisconsin is partly buying Talgos because they'll get the plant in the US. But they may also be ordering Talgos partly because they knew Washington and Oregon were ordering Talgos and it made sense to buy something someone else was buying, rather than a one-off. I would not be surprised if at some time in the future a new "Midwest standard" fleet was established for the routes around Chicago and Wisconsin's Talgos got sold to Washington.

neroden wrote:

AMTK1007 wrote:I believe, but cannot confirm that Missouri, Illinios and Michigan are also considering cars based on the Califronia car model....

In my opinion, that car makes more sense in the midwest..

Wisconsin Missed the boat by ordering talgos, because nothing significant will be gained by using them, EVEN if they are used going to Minneapolis/St Paul. the time gained would only ammount to 5-6 minutes, from what I have been told.

I believe the gains are more than that....

....er, except I think the gains don't arrive until different locomotives are attached, which is planned for the "future". I think I remember reading that the full benefit of the tilting on low speed curves was not available with inappropriate locomotives (am I imagining things?)

The Talgo Series 8 coaches which have been ordered are upgradable to >210 mph max commercial speed, and I doubt this is doable with a California Car, so one advantage is that these cars could be used in future high or very high speed service given a proper ROW and signaling. The question is whether any operator in the US will take advantage of this feature during the useful lifetime of these coaches.

Series 8 specs and nice new rendering of the Talgo 8 cab control car:
http://www.talgoamerica.com/series8-passengerCars.aspx

neroden wrote: I would not be surprised if at some time in the future a new "Midwest standard" fleet was established for the routes around Chicago and Wisconsin's Talgos got sold to Washington.

I wouldn't be surprised is the standard WAS the Talgo. It's a well understood, well received, proven and pretty reliable train. And what issues have come up, Talgo's support was right there, and that means a lot in the end.