Oregon buys 2 Talgo trainsets

Gilbert B Norman wrote:
Finally, it is also interesting to learn that Talgo intends to place their facility well within Wisconsin, apparently ruling out locations such as Kenosha, Racine, or Beloit. After all, you don't need those folk residing in Illinois coming up there and stealing those jobs (also paying no Wisconsin income taxes on those wages owing to a reciprocity agreement between the two states).

You've never noticed the Janesville exit sign during your travels, have you?

Janesville is closer to Illinois than Racine, and there's more manufacturing in Rockford and Belvedere than in Lake County, IL. I'd bet that was one reason Janesville WAS on the final list - the availability of good machinists nearby on both sides of the state border.

http://gazettextra.com/news/2010/feb/18 ... buildings/

From the Janesville WI Gazette.

The article lists some Janesville properties Talgo is looking at. IMHO access to rail for the unfinished car bodies & the finished train sets would be important.
Janesville may have some ex-GM workers out looking for a new job?

Thank you Mr Ultra. The dunce cap is on and I am now writing on the blackboard 100 times: "Janesville 42.68N Racine 42.73N"

Gilbert B Norman wrote:Thank you Mr Ultra. The dunce cap is on and I am now writing on the blackboard 100 times: "Janesville 42.68N Racine 42.73N"

I did it by eyeball and wouldn't have realized the difference was less than 1/10th of a mile. Anyway, you might find it interesting that the Janesville article referenced by GWoodle also mentions a Racine site that is in play.

But I still think Janesville may be the favorite. At this point, their GM plant is still down (though there are rumors it may come back). The GM jobs bank probably still pays many of those folks, but they are no doubt eager for a real job, so you've got a pretty healthy pool of manufacturing employees waiting to sign up if you open up there. I'm not sure that Racine, Kenosha or even Milwaukee have that size pool of skilled people out of work.

I guess there was no way to try to produce some sort of domestic tilting trainset.

Based on what I've read in this forum, seems like Talgo has been perfecting this technology for over 60 years.

There's plenty of stuff that Americans have expertise in.

electricron wrote:2 trainsets for Oregon (2 confirmed)
2 trainsets for Washington
...
That's not including the 5 existing Talgo trainsets in service already for the Cascades trains.

If Oregon and Washington state both buy 2 Talgo trainsets each, is there sufficient track capacity to put all of them to use on the Cascades route? The $590 million that WA got is, if my skim read of the Washington state DOT applications and rail project reports is correct, is to add 2 more trains per day between Seattle and Portland. Oregon only got $8 million for Portland's Union station and some limited track work. Can they go to 8 trains a day with the track upgrades that would be done for the $590 million? Can Oregon run an additional daily train to Eugene with current track capacity south of Portland? Maybe Oregon expects to get more funding from the $2.5 billion FY10 HSR funds yet to be awarded, but there are lot of states that want a piece of those funds.

If they end up with an extra Talgo trainset 3+ years from now, could WA start a daily Seattle to Spokane service? I'm sure people in Spokane would like a train to Seattle that arrives and departs at a reasonable time in the day, not in the middle of the night. But I gather that adding another daily passenger train to Spokane may not feasible on the Empire Builder route with the capacity limit of the Cascade Tunnel. So, if they have an extra Talgo trainset or 2, what would make for a viable new daytime round trip off of the Cascade route from either Seattle or Portland?

Jersey_Mike wrote:I guess there was no way to try to produce some sort of domestic tilting trainset.

The irony is that the US has historically been a big export market for Talgo - I believe the first Talgos were actually tested here, and I think they might have had ACF build them, to boot.

At least a final assembly plant is a start, and Talgo seems eager still, to cater to the US market. Most others have written it off - afterall, look at the effort ABB and Adtranz put in in the 90's, only to get nothing in return.

The other thing - I bet Talgo's got the design pretty tightly protected via patents and all. And really, as bizarre as it is, it works really well.

afiggatt wrote:If Oregon and Washington state both buy 2 Talgo trainsets each, is there sufficient track capacity to put all of them to use on the Cascades route? The $590 million that WA got is, if my skim read of the Washington state DOT applications and rail project reports is correct, is to add 2 more trains per day between Seattle and Portland. Oregon only got $8 million for Portland's Union station and some limited track work. Can they go to 8 trains a day with the track upgrades that would be done for the $590 million? Can Oregon run an additional daily train to Eugene with current track capacity south of Portland? Maybe Oregon expects to get more funding from the $2.5 billion FY10 HSR funds yet to be awarded, but there are lot of states that want a piece of those funds.

I believe that Washington plans to reorganize the existing Talgo equipment into four trainsets instead of five in order to increase capacity. Oregon has been the most aggressive in "flexing" its highway stimulus money to rail projects, so there are a few capacity projects in the works. I would expect to see at least one more Portland-Eugene RT as a consequence of this purchase.

The other thing to keep in mind is that Amtrak is supposed to start including a capital charge for states that use Amtrak-owned equipment for their state-supported services. This gives states a strong incentive to purchase their own equipment, especially if it can be done with federal dollars.

Nas, FYI:

http://www.nhrhta.org/htdocs/images0605.htm

It will be interesting to learn what will be the "percentage US content' of the "Wisconsin-built Talgos'; presumably they will meet the requirements as set forth under ARRA '09. Of course, not even 'American cars' are 100% US content.

Finally, to end with a ROTFLMAO; final assembly most be worth 'two points'; how many dunderheads out there will see Local TV News coverage, with "pols"on hand, of a "roll-out' and think 'they're made right here by fellow cheeseheads'.

from mkellerm:

I believe that Washington plans to reorganize the existing Talgo equipment into four trainsets instead of five in order to increase capacity. Oregon has been the most aggressive in "flexing" its highway stimulus money to rail projects, so there are a few capacity projects in the works. I would expect to see at least one more Portland-Eugene RT as a consequence of this purchase.

The Amtrak Cascades Mid-Range Plan has separate projects to increase the capacity of the trainsets and expand the pool of trainsets (see pdf page 59 of the Plan). In the Plan, one new trainset would be purchased and the 5 existing trainsets @ 12 cars would be reconfigured to 4 sets @ 14 cars. Then 2 more trainsets @14 cars would be purchased, along with a fleet of new locomotives to provide 2 locomotives for each trainset. So, it looks like WA was planning to buy 3 trainsets and reduce the existing pool by one set, giving a total of 7 trainsets.

The WSDOT ARRA application seems to reflect the Mid-Range Plan with the request for 1 trainset, plus 4 new trainsets (2 for delivery ASAP and 2 more for future expansion) along with 18 locomotives. We know that WSDOT has been approved for $598 million, but the specific details haven't been released yet. So, with Oregon's purchase--and presuming that the WA grant includes money for more trains--it looks like there will plenty of rolling stock available for the Cascades corridor.

Pacific 2-3-1 wrote:Don't forget the locomotive in that picture, which was built partly by cheeseheads at Fairbanks-Morse in Beloit

For the prototype train, the locomotive was built in Spain; however for both the NH and B&M Talgos, the locomotives were a Fairbanks Morse design.

Gilbert B Norman wrote:

Pacific 2-3-1 wrote:Don't forget the locomotive in that picture, which was built partly by cheeseheads at Fairbanks-Morse in Beloit

For the prototype train, the locomotive was built in Spain; however for both the NH and B&M Talgos, the locomotives were a Fairbanks Morse design.

SI, SENOR. ES VERDAD.

Gilbert B Norman wrote:It will be interesting to learn what will be the "percentage US content' of the "Wisconsin-built Talgos'; presumably they will meet the requirements as set forth under ARRA '09. Of course, not even 'American cars' are 100% US content.

Indeed, my Subaru Legacy was assembled in Indiana while, say, a Ford Fusion is built down in Mexico. Which one is more American? What about the new Buick Regal? I believe it will be built in the US, but is a rebadged Opel Insignia designed in Europe. There's really no such thing as an American car anymore.

well , if one wanted some vestige of free trade , i guess the best deal would be to sell american diesel engines to Talgo to use in their trains worldwide . stick to what you do best etc .