by finsuburbia
JCGUY wrote:My narrow point on the mayor's plan is that by it's own terms, assuming it's aspirations come to full fruition, it achieves a very small reduction in driving, while instituting a rather large tax, the proceeds of which do very little to fund the yawning gap in transit needs. I understand full well that Hong Kong and New York are different, but that does not mean a public-private partnership can't work to fund an infrastructure project. You want the government to do it -- fine, it is taking generations and generations for the government to accomplish anything. A public-private partnership in some form, any form, could possibly actually build a project in some practical time-frame. Maybe that is possible, maybe not, but I think the notion should be explored. Riding the Lex line is a brutal commuting experience, and waiting for what amounts to governmental charity to get a line built while I'm still breathing has been a fairly dispiriting slog.Public/private partnerships have their place and should be evaluated to see if the cost/benefit of raising capital through the private sector is appropriate.
I said specifically why New York and Hong Kong are different for a reason. You implied that Hong Kong is a reason that a private subway could work. I pointed out that the low cost of driving compared to transit in NYC vs. HK is precisely the reason why it would not work. To use Hong Kong is a red herring.
I don't believe in charging more for driving, that's correct. I drove from Jersey City to Long Island recently. I traveled with children and made multiple stops along the way -- this was a trip that would occur via a car or would simply not occur at all. I paid over $10 in tolls and probably another couple bucks in gas taxes for the 50 mile round trip. In part those taxes subsidize . . . me. I take the PATH line for $1.50, $1.20 when bought in bulk, then purchased with pre-tax dollars via my employer -- maybe 75 cents a ride. For a typical middle class person with a job in Manhattan that's getting close to essentially free. I pay for my "free" ride by enduring infrastructure that desperately needs capacity enhancements and isn't getting them. I'd rather pay the full freight for my subway rides, have the government subsidize directly riders that need it, not all of us regardless of need, and get required capacity enhancements actually built. Some trips are best done by rail, some by car, if you believe in forcing the middle class onto trains for it's own sake, that's one thing. I believe in enhanced mobility, which means sometimes better trains and sometimes -gasp!- enhanced road capacity. It does not mean beating people about the head to make them travel in some way that I believe best (or not travel at all) due to my own personal preferences.Lets see, lets look at driving subsidies.
- Local roadways paid out of property taxes, not user fees (6,400 miles in NYC).
- Gas tax paid into sinking funds (NJ's Transporation Trust Fund and theFederal Highway Trust Fund) that will never get paid off.
- Little to no property taxes on parking (except some places, like Manhattan)
- Street cleaning paid out of property taxes
- Policing, paid out of property taxes
Once motorists pay for all of these things out of user fees, we can talk about the mass transit subsidy.
You want to talk about the private sector? The private sector cannot be viable in mass transit as long as driving is subsidized. There is no reason why the marginal cost of driving should be less than the marginal cost of transit. In fact, it is bad public policy to do so.
As far as roadway capacity is concerned: You can't build your way out of congestion. Any capacity enhancements you make will (especially in the NYC metro area) be immediately eaten up by induced demand. In fact, by adding more capacity in one part of the road network, you make the traffic worse elsewhere. To add enough capacity to (temporarily) get ahead of demand in this area, the cost would make the Second Avenue Subway look like pocket change.
Some reading for you to do:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Induced_demand
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lewis-Mogridge_Position
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Downs-Thomson_paradox
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Braess%27_paradox
Cheers!