Northeast storm and Amtrak operations (was: Nor'easter)

Having grown up along the waterfront @ NYNH&H MP 30.3 (childhood home visible Xing the Mianus), I have a respect for NorEasters. While they usually occurr before and after the boating season, I would not wish to be a Fairfield Navy cadet on manuvers when one hits.

My most recent experience with a NorEaster was this past St Paddy's weekend when I was out East. While I thank Mr. Railnut for having his road operate 1365(16Mar) and 1586 "smack on time' so I could make my two appointments in town that PM, Amtrak was not so fortunate. While one train hardly represents a sample, I noted on my return to Stamford #178(16) scheduled for 818P was "making the scene" at about 10PM. That NEstr involved snow, as many of our Northeast members can recall.

I can't believe that the Boston Marathon is a 'go" today. Likely the registered entrant astronaut aboard the Space Station will have the best time; if that be the case, whether she will be considered "the winner' is something else.

Despite blatant inaccuracies depicting New Haven RR (whoops, PC) operations circa 1973, as well as to me a "sick" plot, the movie "The Ice Storm" is based on events arising from an actual NorEaster occurring during the 1973 Holiday season.

While they are not a hurricane, those storms are not to be taken lightly.

Lastly, to parody a signature line used by a Member at another railforum, "GBN in sunny seasonal temperature Chicagoland" (hoping the Olympics will go elsewhere).

The storm must have knocked down wires on the Keystone Line - according to the local news, no trains at all were running. At noon time today, a diesel was shown about to take a train east.

A downside of electrification.

Downeaster Service between Boston and Portland has been cancelled indefinitely, due to storm damage, specifically a washout in Berwick, Maine. There was a failure of the Matthews Dam in Berwick, but I am not familiar with that dam to determine if that is what caused the washout. In addition, there is high water in other areas of GRS/PAR line, including Scarborough ME and Newmarket NH. Also, numerous fallen trees.

Train #680 did make it through the area this morning, so one train set will likely be spending the night in Boston. No word on when repairs can be made. As of 1:45PM, it was still raining hard in southern NH and ME.

Dick H

Train 2150 was an hour and a half late at Stamford, CT, today. I know LIRR's East River Tunnels were affected by flooding last night, perhaps there were residual delays up and down the line because of it.

From NJ.com - update as of 1:50pm:

Floodwaters rapidly are encroaching on the Trenton train station. If the tracks are breached, the station will be closed shutting down Amtrak service between Washington and New York. Cancellations and delays have been reported on all train lines throughout the state. Train service on the Montclair-Boonton and Pascack Valley lines is suspended due to high water on the tracks, displacing thousands of commuters. Customers may use their tickets and passes on NJ TRANSIT buses, DeCamp buses or Newark Light Rail, NJ Transit officials said. However, customers should expect delays and crowded conditions. Other bus and train lines are running, though there are delays systemwide.

the Assimpink Creek runs right through Trenton station, along side the NEC - it very often floods, as there are many marks on the stone walls in the cut between the station and the Delaware River bridge showing the heights of the water in various storms. Once that retaining wall for the creek is breached in the station, it will flood very quickly.

Last night, there was reports of water over the rails up by Newark Airport station as well - trains were being ordered to operate according to Norac Rule 117, which is regulations regarding water over the rails.

I believe the NOAA reports wind speeds in knots, not mph. So some of the wind speeds you may be hearing may actually be higher than you thought! (Maybe TV and newspapers translate kts to mph.)

Henry Kisor wrote:I believe the NOAA reports wind speeds in knots, not mph. So some of the wind speeds you may be hearing may actually be higher than you thought! (Maybe TV and newspapers translate kts to mph.)

Only for marine and aviation forecasts. The regular forecasts and observations report wind in mph (3 second gust value).

There is a definite possibility of the Trenton station or bridge flooding out. Now to share my story...
On June 28, 2006, I arrived in TRE from BOS; my transfer point to get to CWH (where my car was parked). The train arrived a few minutes early(!), and the SEPTA train waited for a few minutes so we could get on, allowing us to shave almost an hour off our trip. as we were on our way to the Morrisville Bridge, I heard the conductor say that the bridge will be shut down in two minutes. At that point, the engineer put the pedal to the metal, and afterwards, I heard the conductor say something along the lines of "When we were over the bridge, it shut down." Thank God that the train waited for us, or else my whole family would have to spent the night in Trenton.

JTGSHU and all: I was to travel to NYP this afternoon from TRE to return to LI. I caught your post here in a nick of time and I later saw a TV report on KYW 3 in PHL - 6pm news
by reporter Robin Macintosh explaining the TRE situation. They were watching the Assunpink closely-acting Governor Codey was interviewed and explaining that NJT would have to shut down service if the water spilled over the retaining wall there. There was water on the tracks there requiring a 15 MPH speed for all trains traveling thru. If the water went over the rail level at that time service would be suspended.
I recall myself the'99 Floyd flood as well as when I was a teenager the 1975 flood at TRE-I remembered the water was literally at the platform level there and equipment was sitting in the water. Yes-as you said those high water marks are marked on the stone walls there. I remember that Amtrak had drainage work done on the TRE cut for this very reason but the Assunpink is a problem there for obvious reasons. If anyone has photos of that '75 flood I-among others-would like to see them or be directed to them. This April 2007 Northeaster is one for the weather record books! MACTRAXX

Today, I noticed two Acela Express trainsets within a few minutes of each other speeding past New Brunswick New York-bound around 6:15p today.

I figured, was it because of a late/on-time departure at some point south?

Maxx - you're right, the Assunpink Creek is a big problem - I haven't heard anything from any NJT crews (ive been off the past few days) about how things are in Trenton, but I do know that the employee parking lot for NJT and Amtrak employees (the Pit) was flooded pretty bad - I heard that on the radio this afternoon from a DJ who boards in Trenton (Blane Ensley - from the Rocky Allen Showgram on 95.5 WPLJ in NYC) that the water was to the windows of a BMW parked in the lot.

Once the water gets above the rails, NORAC rule 117 kicks in:

117. Operating Through Water with Roller Bearing Journals
Engines and cars equipped with roller bearing journals must not be operated through water, except in emergency when authorized by the Dispatcher. In such a case, the movement must not exceed 2 MPH, and water depth as measured from the top of the rail must not exceed the following:
1. Diesel Engines, and Electric Engines Class E-60: 3 inches.
2. Electric Engines Class AEM-7, ALP-46 and ALP-44: 6 inches.
3. Other Electric Engines and MU Cars: 2 inches.
4. Rail Diesel Cars; Cars Other than MU's: 7 inches.

As a side note, NJT's Arrow 3 MU's are allowed to go through water 3 inches above the railhead.

but basically when the water gets above the rails, bad things happen and that is the place that they are watching really closely. Although not so much of a problem for Amtrak, but if it happens over night and the RR gets shut down NJT riders will be really screwed as hundreds of cars would be trapped in Morrisville Yard.

The marks ive noticed on the walls in the cut were from Floyd in 99 and a storm in 1977 i think it was. Those marks were several FEET above the railhead. If the Assunpink gets that high, things are gonna be ugly for a while!!!

I seem to remember photographs of steam locos running through water much higher than that. Then again, those were the days of friction bearings and high drivers on the locos…

its not so much the location of the bearings that is the problem, but rather the water seeping into the traction motors. The traction motors hang down just a litlte bit higher than the height of the snowplow (on a diesel at least).

the ALPS and AEM7's have much larger wheel diameters than diesels and the traction motors dont' hang down as much, which allow them to go through higher water.

The Downeaster Cancelled trains 680, 681, 682, 683, 684 and 685 today, but will make a decision on 686 and 687 later today if the tracks can be cleared in time for those departures. 3868/4868 and 3869/4869 are running normally (the bus departures out of North Station)

JTGSHU and everyone: I had no idea that trains literally would be slowed to walking speed if the water height was above certain points mentioned. Not to mention the fact that electricity and water do not mix or with that water covered or flooded track bed what if something was to shift or derail due to the water covered roadbed? I remember watermarks of other TRE flood problems also on that stone wall-but the most prominent ones were for the 1975 flood as well as the 1999 Floyd flood. Someone with access was smart enough to mark that wall for all to remember about that problem called the Assunpink Creek next door...it really is in Amtrak's or NJTs interest to re-investigate what can-or can not be done to not allow flooding in this strategic Trenton Station area on Amtrak's NEC. But-if Mother Nature decides to throw her best curve ball....MACTRAXX