NJCL Summer ridership down ???....other NJCL updates.

SecaucusJunction wrote:I am not familiar with the coast line and I was wondering if Comet I's are ever used on the Bay Head Shuttle... and if not, was there a time when they were used regularly on this line?

No, Comet Is are never used on this line (with the exception of the Pony Express.) There was a time when Comet Is were used on the NJCL in the 80s but no longer. Also, the Comet 1s were also used for the Bergen Shore Express.

Usually, the Bay Head shuttle uses IBs. And before that, they used the unrebuilt IIs and IBs.

OCtrainguy wrote:Another thing that caught my attention, was that there was only three consists laying over in the yard, and only one of them was a F40PH-2CAT. Usually, I have seen five to seven consists laying over, and the majority had the F40PH-2CATs. I am sure that that the work on the yard is having an impact on the amount of trains NJT will keep there right now.

Since the F40s were de-divisionised and now can be found anywhere, you don't see as many F40s servicing the NJCL as you did before. Usually, I've seen about half F40s and half Geeps used for Bay Head to Hoboken trains. And a lot of times I have seen a majority of Geeps over the F40s.

So anyway, back to my original question...

Is the NJCL still slated to be completely electrified to Bay Head?

If so, does anyone have an idea as to when this may happen??????

CNJ wrote:So anyway, back to my original question...

Is the NJCL still slated to be completely electrified to Bay Head?

If so, does anyone have an idea as to when this may happen??????

Not that I'm aware of. It's probably on NJT's "to do list" but it isn't going to happen any time soon.

"Less fare revenue...or let's say less potential fare revenue what with fewer stops. "

Lots of potential south of Long Branch - but with the current milk run that is in place down there, commuter traffic will continue to be light. Run an express - say Bay Head, Pt. Pleasant, Spring Lake, Belmar, Asbury Park, Long Branch and then express to Newark/Hoboken - you'll attract riders. Market the train, and make it comepetive with driving!

And they operate trains on both tracks in the same direction at times on the Coast Line. My evening express train is often on the eastbound (northbound) track. Same could be done in the a.m.

Need to speed things up on the NJCL - instead of slowing it down. Electrification to Bay Head would help tremendously, but doubt that will ever happen soon.

When they ran the "Matawan Expresses" (stopping at Matawan, Newark and New York) and marketed the service effectively, the trains filled up. Yes, this was to inaugurate the extension of electric service on the NJCL, but my suggestion is to offer better express service south of Long Branch.

The weekend summer express trains, where they run express from New York/Hoboken to Long Branch, would be nice on the weekdays as well.

Its not the two tracks that's the limiting factor - its running the trains from the NJCL directly to New York - here's a bright idea - send them to Hoboken. I've been doing the change of trains in Newark lately, and it's not all that bad. An inconvenience, yes, but there are worse things on NJT.

JP hit the nail on the head....if NJT would offer better expresses, like to /from Middletown, Red Bank or even Long Branch, ridership would increase west of long branch, and overcrowding would ease ever so slightly on the NEC out of Metropark and other Coast Line stops, particularily Matawan.

Also, more Bayhead/Hoboken express trains would help considerably, but what would really help, espcially on the weekends would be South Amboy or Matawan Locals, with the other train running express from that point.
These weekend South Amboy trians would ease overcrowding on NEC trains as they could be run ahead of the locals.

The only limiting factor to ridership being "low" on the weekends, especially on the NEC, is the lack of trains. Being forced to stand from sometimes PJ into NYP is a sure way to turn a weekend traveller away from teh trains

Don't you find it funny that they can't finish the final few miles of this line????

I would think that times would improve if the entire line is completely electrified.

Your opinion(s)????

nick11a wrote:

CNJ wrote:So anyway, back to my original question...

Is the NJCL still slated to be completely electrified to Bay Head?

If so, does anyone have an idea as to when this may happen??????

Not that I'm aware of. It's probably on NJT's "to do list" but it isn't going to happen any time soon.

I think that relatively low commuter traffic combined with the costs of upgrading these tracks is keeping NJT from electrifying the line. There was a point where the drawbridge in Point Pleasant was in a state of such disrepair that it was proposed that service be cut back to Manasquan, abandoning Point Pleasant and Bay Head. The drawbridge has since been single tracked.

transit383 wrote:]I think that relatively low commuter traffic combined with the costs of upgrading these tracks is keeping NJT from electrifying the line.

Well with the current push-pull service and low average speeds (as a result of stopping at every stop) south of Long Branch, its hard to increase the commuter traffic. Without a doubt, extension of electrification has led to expansions in NJT commuter traffic. Take Matawan - it has ballooned in ridership since electrification was inaugurated in April 1982. With the inauguration of the Matawan Expresses ridership had increased 25% by December 1982. It has since grown by leaps and bounds as the shore area has developed, but that development is only spreading southward. The extension of electrification came with new express train and (originally) faster schedules. This helped to get people out of their cars and on the trains.

When one says "relatively low commuter traffic", then that's all in the hands of whomever operates, or more so whomever funds the line—not to mention distorts the purpose of the line insofar as passengers intended to be served. The municipalities along the unelectrified NJCL are anything but depopulated, not to mention that many of these municipalities are large attractions during the summer months.

Irish Chieftain wrote:When one says "relatively low commuter traffic", then that's all in the hands of whomever operates, or more so whomever funds the line?not to mention distorts the purpose of the line insofar as passengers intended to be served. The municipalities along the unelectrified NJCL are anything but depopulated, not to mention that many of these municipalities are large attractions during the summer months.

But does NJT see the southern half of the NJCL as more of a commuter operation or a seasonal operation? In either case, service should be expanded with a service level that is attractive to passengers. If the NJCL were a true shore attraction, then there would be expresses and service increases during the summer months to the lower half of the line. However, if it is just a commuter line, then the electrification should have been extended a long time ago.

Take a look at Monmouth Park Racetrack station, with its unelectrified seasonal siding. It is unelectrified because of the seasonal service. Could the same apply to the southern half of the Coast Line?

When it comes to potential summer service increases, then the NJCL is a commuter line with slow and unattractive service. When it comes to electrification south of Long Branch, the NJCL is a seasonal operation.

Yep, if you make it, they will come. Sure, it would greatly affect the coast line for the better. But, the fact of the reality is that it isn't going to happen for some time. But, I would certainly love to see this.

transit383 wrote:However, if it is just a commuter line, then the electrification should have been extended a long time ago.

The NJCL is first and foremost a commuter line - year round. Yes, the summer brings us increased seasonal ridership south of Long Branch particularly - but plenty of commuters rough it out the entire length of the NJCL on a daily basis. God bless these people. Closest station for me is Manasquan, but I drive north (to Red Bank) to shorten my commute and get an express from there. Many other shore commuters do a similar routine - I've met them in the parking lots and on the train! And until recently, I was feeding the daily parking box - after four years on the waiting list for parking in Red Bank I now have a permit to ease this hassle!

Electrification has been on the drawing boards ever since electrification was done from Rahway to South Amboy in PRR days. In matter of fact, voters approved a bond issue in 1968 to fund electrification of the entire NJCL from South Amboy to Bay Head - but the financial condition of the PRR and CNJ (operators of the line) precluded pursuit of the electrification. The electirification, at thist time was seen as a way to bring efficiencies to the line and riders back to the rails. Same philosophy can be applied today. Congressman James J. Howard wanted funding passed to extend electrification to Bay Head - and that was in the early 1980s when the extension to Long Branch was being debated. Electrification is still debated south of Long Branch (among NJCL riders, shore residents, and others).

One thing that cripples this rail line IMHO is the missing segment, which was called the Philadephia & Long Branch Railroad during PRR days. The line did go further south than Bay Head originally, through Mantoloking, Lavallette, Seaside Heights et al, and then crossed Barnegat Bay to go through Toms River and other towns, terminating in Camden. If the P&LB was restored to at least Seaside Heights, then more of both the commuter base and the seasonal tourist base is opened up.