New Meadowlands Rail Station

Is there going to be a crossing at murray hill parkway? I gotta check out the turnout to the PVL. See what happens when NJT contracts work out..it gets done in a timely manner..look at how fast the new Mount Arlington station is going up as well. I'll stop here before I get yelled at for being negative or not knowing how much work is needed in other NJT projects..but it does seem to the casual observer NJT does not do things as swiftly as private contractors.

northjerseybuff wrote:Is there going to be a crossing at murray hill parkway? I gotta check out the turnout to the PVL. See what happens when NJT contracts work out..it gets done in a timely manner..look at how fast the new Mount Arlington station is going up as well. I'll stop here before I get yelled at for being negative or not knowing how much work is needed in other NJT projects..but it does seem to the casual observer NJT does not do things as swiftly as private contractors.

Interesting comment. I guess your not aware that NJT is doing all the work on the existing track. That's the new signal on the Bergen County, the new turnout to the long siding on the BCRR, the two new crossovers by Union Ave, the new turnout by Union Ave, the rebuilt long siding, the new crossover by signal 8-1J, the new turnout by the old UOP crossing, the new freight track adjacent to the long siding, the new crossover to the single track from the long siding, the new Seaman interlocking, etc...

All this is being done in addition to the complete new signal system on the PVL.

Murray hill parkway will most likely have a crossing. The new fill for the tracks is right at grade level. Im curious to know if they've started the abutments for the berry creek bridge?

IMO, that is one of the areas that NJT is head and toes above the rest on is the track and MOW departments. Sure, there are a few things with the signal systems in various places that are a little questionable (hahah) but overall, they do a hell of a job, especially with totally new construction.

Don't forget the South Amboy track rebuilding/reconfiguration, and the Morrisville yard expansion, those are major projects going on right now as well - the maze of overhead catenary down there would make the PRR proud!!!!

It seems to me that its the opposite........... most times when the work is contracted out it takes much longer than when NJT does it (cough cough - MMC and E.E. Cruz)

while i do agree that smaller private contracters drag things out, its probably cause they dont have any other jobs lined up and they need a paycheck. But with sanzari doing alot of this work, he'll get it done in no time. That company has things lined up for years to come.

SIRSONIC-
I am well aware of all the work NJT is doing. And again I am not trying to attack the employees. I have lived along the line and rode it again today. I just wish it would be over with already.
wasn't the original date for completion like 2000 or 2001. For this ex NJT employee and monthly user of the line, it seems painstakingly slow. And yes, I do fully understand ALL thats involved, which is why I love to see them working weekends-making OT and getting the job done!
On a side note-Metro North has a stake in this project. Does it stand to reason that, that is why the siding in Nanuet was the first to be completed?
again- to the casual observer- the physical accomplishments are what the general public sees who ride the line every day..to them they don't see a lot being done over the months even if a lot of electrical stuff has been done and all the stuff you mentioned in your response.
INTERESTING NOTE- From riding today..you can now clearly see where the meadowlands spur will swing in..is this going to be a Y scenerio? looks like it..and also NJT did rebuild the long siding..only to have a part of it ripped out for the new meadowlands spur..doh!

Sirsonic-
Since a lot of us on this board don't know how long a project like this takes. Can you give us some timelines? How long does it take to rewire a line? rebuild(in this case the long siding)..new signals- to the BCL? etc..
I remember the trackwork near secaucus jct being worked on with what seemed like swarms of teams to get it done back before it opened.

How would rebuilding the cutoff be in regards to this kind of work? If the PVL line a 28 mile? line with passing sidings requires this much time, how long would the cutoff or MOM or something along those lines take in time?

geoffand wrote:On why they didn't build the Devils new arena at the Meadowlands. Answer: Because the Meadowlands are difficult to get to, and politics wanted an arena built in Newark. Of course with this new rail link the Meadowlands will officially become transit friendly, but at the current rate there may be no sport teams left at the Meadowlands--just a ridiculously overbuilt mall that no one will go to and a race track. Face it, the Meadowlands are sooo 1980's. City based arenas are the new flavor, and this extension to the Meadowlands could become yet another NJT huge mistake.

rbenko wrote:Impeccible timing by NJT, but I still don't think it will be a mistake. The arena will still be there for concerts, college hoops, and whatever else they can schedule. The Jets and Giants are building a new stadium, so there are at least 18 home games (including exhibition games), and possible playoff games - plus the stadium is used for concerts, some college football and I'm sure other stuff. The racetrack is somewhat of a draw in itself, although probably most people going to the track will still drive. And if the mall is marketed correctly, it could be a draw for people from NY trying to save a bit on taxes, although with the recent hike in sales tax, that might not be as much of a factor.

Overall, I believe this will be a big plus for all concerned - IF NJT can make it convenient and cost effective. That's a big IF...

I know this was posted a long time ago, however, I'm only seeing it for the first time now:

I would think they'd want to have this service operate full-time. One thing overlooked in this are horseplayers in Manhattan and other parts of NYC, tired of paying the 5% surcharge on wagers at NYC OTB outlets (and not wanting to take the subway to Aqueduct when the Big A is open) would want to take advantage of being able to take a train across the Hudson to The Meadowlands for simulcasting as well as live racing there. It may not be the demand it once was, but I would think some would want to do that.

Another possibility is in a few years, you could see a casino on The Meadowlands complex (and perhaps in the racetrack itself) to try and compete with the "racinos" at Yonkers Raceway and eventually at Aqueduct (as the AC Casinos may not have a choice but to eventually allow that, especially if they got a stake in such). That would also warrant having full-time service to the sports complex.

the full time service in my mind is what should've been proposed. But the way its setup now, bcl riders can't get to the station, well they can but then the train has to reverse over the proposed wye, then have the engineer goto to whatever side is facing west at this point to continue teh trip.

If this wasnt just a spur with and end, but rather a loop around the whole complex you can bcl trains run thru all the time aswell as pvl. Have the why where it is currently going to be installed for both e/b and w/b pvl trains. Then have another wye installed just in the area of rt.3 over pass. Thus allowing e/b and w/b BCL trains to run onto the wye on the PVL loop around to the station, deboard/board passengers, pull out go around the complex to the second wye thats now near rt.3 and they can contiue westward up the PVL. Or if its a e/b to hoboken, go thru the wye by rt.3, loop around the complex with a stop at the station, come back out the wye on the pvl tracks and continue e/b thru the bcl line to hoboken.

If its done before the mall it'll still be open for the stadiums?

As an aside, I wonder if will mean the end of service from the Port Authority Bus Terminal every fifteen minutes for concerts and games.

I was making the point that the construction work you seemed to indicate was moving right along was the work being done by NJT.

The project was significantly delayed when it was decided to include the Meadowlands Spur in this project. Because of that, the engineers (not locomotive) decided that they would need to redesign the entire siding project on the PVL. An un-necesscary delay yes, but it does save money to do everything at once.

There is no way to really give a timetable for this project. The segment of work ongoing right now is probably the most involved, in terms of work in the field, and lengthy. It is my understanding that the work is currently focused on the line segment between the new siding at Pond (Nanuet) and Cole (North Hackensack). When this part of the project is done, that segment of track will all be operated by cab signals without wayside signals, as will the entire PVL at the completion of this project. The only wayside signals will be at interlockings.

The Meadowlands spur will be double track, with a 3 track station. There will be a wye connection to the PVL just north of Union Ave (behind the Lowes). The westward connection (from Hoboken) to the spur will be double track, and the new interlocking (Sport, still under construction) will be designed to allow two simultaneous moves to/from the spur. There will be a single track connection to the spur from the eastward direction.

I don't think this has been mentioned before...and I don't know the area well, so bare with me.

Will this spur be electrified? This is coming off the PVL, correct? Is that electrified up to this point?

geoffand wrote:I don't think this has been mentioned before...and I don't know the area well, so bare with me.

Will this spur be electrified? This is coming off the PVL, correct? Is that electrified up to this point?

The Main, Bergen and Pascack are non-electrified as they are mostly of Erie heritage (with exceptions to parts of the Main Line). The Erie never ran electrified trains.

In regards to the scope and size and time of a project - rebuilding a line from the ground up - i.e. MOM, or Cutoff or whatever would be much easier and quicker, IMO, when starting from scratch. Why?

Because you aren't having to work around train schedules - and when work is done for the day, it has to be left so trains can operate over the track and normal railroad function. This might include a lot of work which would ultimately be undone the next day when they start working again. All that takes a lot of time and money.

Look at the Whitehouse siding for example. that was graded, and the new track installed and cut in (not the signals, but the track) and the main replaced as well, in just a few short weeks!!! How? Because they had all day to work on the line inbetween runs, and all weekend. There is also very little freight up that way to interfere with as well. The PVL is different - while the passenger train schedules do allow large down times, there is still a significant amont of freight, which has to be worked around.

After this goes into service, will there be regular weekend PVL service added?