Lawsuit over Blue Line / Red Line Connection

Mass. General Hospital is suing the State over the delay in building the Blue Line Extension to Charles Station.

http://www.boston.com/news/local/articl ... bway_link/

Very interesting! I think this is a little harder for the state to ignore than the CLF lawsuits. Of course, it may just be a bid to get concessions elsewhere.

Regarding ridership, I live on Beacon Hill and commute on the Red Line from Charles/MGH to Harvard. When I board from 7:30 - 9:00am, it seems like anywhere from 1/4 to 1/3 of the riders on the outbound trains get off at Charles/MGH and head towards MGH. A large number (but not as large a percentage) of inbound riders do the same.

That extension would be a waste of money, now that Red Line riders have the option to catch the Silver Line at South Station for a direct ride to the airport terminals. I don't think the state should spend hundreds of millions of dollars for the relatively small number of non-airport Blue Line riders looking to get to the Red Line or the Charles St. area.

JD

Once the Blue Line is extended to Lynn, the need for a connection at Charles will become quite obvious.

See, that makes no sense, I go over to the MGH atleast once a month, and im not gonna go from Orient Heights, get off at Airport, get on a massport bus, get off at terminal A etc, get on a Silver Line bus, get off at south station, and get on the redline, and get off at MGH

Would be ALOT easier to do the state mandated thing (iirc) to get on @ Orient Heights, and get off @ MGH

And not like its hard! The old portal is within eyeshot of Charles/MGH, just pull a cut and cover, relocate utils (after the Big Dig, that should be simple!

And your done! Maybe if the T did that, others would get off there back about state mandated projects!

CJ wrote:See, that makes no sense, I go over to the MGH atleast once a month, and im not gonna go from Orient Heights, get off at Airport, get on a massport bus, get off at terminal A etc, get on a Silver Line bus, get off at south station, and get on the redline, and get off at MGH

Would be ALOT easier to do the state mandated thing (iirc) to get on @ Orient Heights, and get off @ MGH

And not like its hard! The old portal is within eyeshot of Charles/MGH, just pull a cut and cover, relocate utils (after the Big Dig, that should be simple!

And your done! Maybe if the T did that, others would get off there back about state mandated projects!

That's because the fact that people use the Blue Line to reach places other than Logan seems to be lost in the planning process...

Actually, the real answer is that the Silver Line does decrease the number of people who need to use the Red/Blue connector. Given that all planning studies are based on benefits gained through ridership levels, that might be enough to twist the models to start making Red/Blue look like too little for the cost. Sometimes the models designed to prevent projects that don't make sense end up killing projects that make sense...

If MGH paid out money to help design the station, and they knew they wanted to have the Blue Line connection come in here, they should have paid more attention to the final design of the station.

I don't see it being easy to add a basement level (at the very least, it will require new elevators) at this point:

http://www.mbta.com/projects_underway/i ... _level.jpg

Anyway, I don't know that MGH is really a big reason for the Red-Blue connection project. They will be exactly half a mile away from the new Government Center station entrance, which is the typical walking threshold for rapid transit stops. Given that they are already right next to a stop (albeit on a different line), I think its hard for them to argue that they are underserved by public transportation.

No, the real reason for the Red-Blue connection at this point is to be able to more efficiently bring Blue Line Riders to points elsewhere on the Red Line and vice-versa. Many employment centers are along the Red Line, and such a connection would make living in East Boston and the other areas served by the Blue Line much more paletable for many -- especially those that work near the northern portion of the Red Line (i.e. Cambridge). Following this logic, the Silver Line really should connect to the Airport Station to bring Blue Liners more easily to the anticipated employment and recreation centers at the waterfront.

All that said, as I've mentioned before, the chance for the simple cut-and-cover BL extension is now long gone, what with the Cambridge St. reconstruction and the Charles/MGH station construction underway.

I don't anticipate this happening unless there is some later, major extension of the Blue Line. Where? Well if you get to Charles/MGH, you're pretty much pointed over the Charles River. Somehow swing back over to Lechemere and you could switch back to catenary and take the route of the planned Green Line extension. Yeah, I know, it'll never happen. I don't hold too much hope for a Red-Blue connection, either.

A Blue Line extension does not need to come all the way into the basement of Charles station. It could stop a little short of there, with an underground moving sidewalk to connect it to the Red Line station.

Yeah, but what kills me is the $$ they plan to spend on it... Compared to other projects, this should be a walk in the park

They cut and cover down the rest of the street (not that hard, they have been working in the middle of the street for a while)

They pour one CENTER platform, one elevator etc, one staircase

Connect the staircase to the street under charles/mgh

Same with the Elevator shaft

Besides the extention, the shaft and stair passageways (which iirc they are putting in w/ the new MGH stop) would be a week tops work to do, cut and cover the rest!

A good contractor could get it done in a couple of months

Yes, there is the new government station entrance opening, but think for all those people going to the hospital , one its a walk in the winter, and people in wheelchairs + icy inclined sidewalks = dont add up much!

CJ is right.
Every day I have to trek over to UMASS Boston and i only add to the crowds at Park Street. Why would I get on at Wood Island and ride one stop to take the Massport shuttle bus to one of the terminals to get on a Silver line bus then on to south station. A red line connecter can help alleviate some of the congestion in Park and Downtown crossing stations.

Lets look at some of the fact too. There is already a small stretch of tunnel that extends past Bowden. Why not extend the tunnel a little closer to Charles and have a walk way and stairs connect the two. ?

Don't forget you pay 1 fair to get on the blue line and then another fair to get on the silver line. Maybe that's how the T will take care of the budget problems.

CJ wrote:Yeah, but what kills me is the $$ they plan to spend on it... Compared to other projects, this should be a walk in the park

They cut and cover down the rest of the street (not that hard, they have been working in the middle of the street for a while)

They pour one CENTER platform, one elevator etc, one staircase

Connect the staircase to the street under charles/mgh

Same with the Elevator shaft

Besides the extention, the shaft and stair passageways (which iirc they are putting in w/ the new MGH stop) would be a week tops work to do, cut and cover the rest!

A good contractor could get it done in a couple of months

What are you doing here? You should be in the subway construction business - the taxpayers would love you because you're going to save them money, and the city would love you because you'll have the street dug up for only a couple of months. I'm sure you would be able to underbid all those existing construction firms with their outrageous budgets. Get cracking!

JD

Red Wing wrote:Don't forget you pay 1 fair to get on the blue line and then another fair to get on the silver line. Maybe that's how the T will take care of the budget problems.

There is a free connection between the Silver Line and the Red Line at South Station, and from the Washington St. Silver Line to several downtown subway stops. If a Silver-Blue connection is set up, it would no doubt also have a free transfer.

JD

stupid question --
How hard would it be to take the blue line connector at Charles/MGH and run it over to terminate at North Station?
Assuming it could be done, you would have a commuter rail connection to the airport, North Station would have orange, green and now blue line access and connections to the red line from north station could be somewhere other than Park St.

Hahahaha!

Well, For one, for quite a few months (iirc there just about done now) there was lots of center construction work on the street.

Second off, Im going with compared to the T's other projects, state street, aquarium and others, which have/will have caused people disruptions, and those took years to finish (and I think everyone here thinks that 1 yr of construction vs the dig's time, isnt too bad)

I mean, its a simple job for the T, no curves, most of the trackage is already there as well, and there planning for charles included a BL extention, not to mention that there mandated to do it.

But it just cant be easier! Our local guys are used to moving conduit, they can get that done without issue, and the connector is less than half a mile.

Take 2 weeks to dig up the center street (incline on), reroute conduit (that may take a while!) Then lay some track, cover it back up, and then the construction will be isolated to right down by charles/mgh, where there is already work going on! Not to mention, there would be no more digging, as it would have already been acomplished earlier, they end up being isolated to a 15 car legnth section tops, figure 6 + 6 + a little extra

have your station further away, then a fake wall, then 2 stub tracks w/ a crossover, and between the fake wall, put up either stairs, or a walkway to an elevator, have ti look like a T (ill make a sketch in a minute)

Just, compared to there other projects, I think this would be a cakewalk for the T, who wants to dig under the heart of the city w/ a TBM to link north and south station, which they have plans for, but cant cut and cover a tunnel within eyeshot of trackage?