Lawsuit over Blue Line / Red Line Connection

Why not just change at Government Center, go to Park, change there.

Now this is large, overly exagurated (sp!) and leaves room for expansion (a good idea, in the winter, but very costly i'd bet, but interesting!!)

http://cjpcweb.com/idea.jpg

Just an idea, and off quite a bit, but an idea!!

mattster wrote:Why not just change at Government Center, go to Park, change there.

I think it could be that they hate the Green Line, which is understandable. I haven't had too many problems lately with the Blue-Green-Red connection, although occasionally I had to wait for a relatively clear train at Govt. Center. And yes, I have officially changed my stance on the Blue-Green-Red vs. Blue-Orange-Red argument. In fact, I rarely take the Orange Line anymore.

CJ wrote:Hahahaha!

Well, For one, for quite a few months (iirc there just about done now) there was lots of center construction work on the street.

Second off, Im going with compared to the T's other projects, state street, aquarium and others, which have/will have caused people disruptions, and those took years to finish (and I think everyone here thinks that 1 yr of construction vs the dig's time, isnt too bad)

I mean, its a simple job for the T, no curves, most of the trackage is already there as well, and there planning for charles included a BL extention, not to mention that there mandated to do it.

But it just cant be easier! Our local guys are used to moving conduit, they can get that done without issue, and the connector is less than half a mile.

Take 2 weeks to dig up the center street (incline on), reroute conduit (that may take a while!) Then lay some track, cover it back up, and then the construction will be isolated to right down by charles/mgh, where there is already work going on! Not to mention, there would be no more digging, as it would have already been acomplished earlier, they end up being isolated to a 15 car legnth section tops, figure 6 + 6 + a little extra

have your station further away, then a fake wall, then 2 stub tracks w/ a crossover, and between the fake wall, put up either stairs, or a walkway to an elevator, have ti look like a T (ill make a sketch in a minute)

Just, compared to there other projects, I think this would be a cakewalk for the T, who wants to dig under the heart of the city w/ a TBM to link north and south station, which they have plans for, but cant cut and cover a tunnel within eyeshot of trackage?

Things in Boston just don''t work that easily. Repeal all legislation favoring above-market or union wages for government construction, repeal the ADA, and drastically reduce the amount and extent of building codes, don't require people to take the lowest bidder, and it could be done. In half the time. For a fourth of the cost.

This is a station serving a hospital. ADA is one thing you don't want to cut back on here. I'm sure the folks at MGH, who filed the lawsuit, will agree.

If it's built, I hope it has not just elevators, but also both up and down escalators.

dudeursistershot wrote:Things in Boston just don''t work that easily. Repeal all legislation favoring above-market or union wages for government construction, repeal the ADA, and drastically reduce the amount and extent of building codes, don't require people to take the lowest bidder, and it could be done. In half the time. For a fourth of the cost.

I think we are talking about different things. Im trying to compare the T's projects, and planned ones (ie dig underneath the city for a NS link that will never happen, that they have plans for, and would like to do, at a cost it said of near 8 billion), yet, they dont have plans (that we know of) of an arborway restoration, or a blue connector at MGH.

Just saying there spending millions thinking of things that probably wont get done (or pet projects, like the SL) when there trying to weasel out of legally mandated things! Im just saying (again heh) that it seems simple to do, compared to other things the T has got done!

CJ wrote:

dudeursistershot wrote:Things in Boston just don''t work that easily. Repeal all legislation favoring above-market or union wages for government construction, repeal the ADA, and drastically reduce the amount and extent of building codes, don't require people to take the lowest bidder, and it could be done. In half the time. For a fourth of the cost.

I think we are talking about different things. Im trying to compare the T's projects, and planned ones (ie dig underneath the city for a NS link that will never happen, that they have plans for, and would like to do, at a cost it said of near 8 billion), yet, they dont have plans (that we know of) of an arborway restoration, or a blue connector at MGH.

Just saying there spending millions thinking of things that probably wont get done (or pet projects, like the SL) when there trying to weasel out of legally mandated things! Im just saying (again heh) that it seems simple to do, compared to other things the T has got done!

And I'm saying that you could do all of those projects that the T has in the pipeline for a fourth of the cost in half the time if regulations, building codes, and unions werent so ridiculous

Your right, but would you want to travel through a subway that an earthquake could take down, because it was built with shoddy concrete by union workers that were being paid less than minimum wage?

Just look @ it from the other side of the table, as the union worker, there gettin $ for there time, to keep paying for there rent/bills etc, cant slash wages, its because the cost of living went up, etc etc..

I'm just saying its seems easier then what the T leads us to beleive

mattster wrote:Why not just change at Government Center, go to Park, change there.

Try it sometime, and then you'll understand why. I did it for years, and it nearly drove me to do the unthinkable. Buy a car. But I opted instead to move, as it was less hassle.

A Red Line-Blue Line connection at Charles would benefit only one group of riders - those going to/from Cambridge and points beyond.

Think about it. For your typical rider trying to get from East Boston to Red Line points south of Park Street, they will need to travel an extra five minutes beyond Government Center to Charles-MGH. They will then have to get from the Blue Line at below-street level to the elevated Red Line station. Then, they will have to wait outside for the next southbound Red Line train. Once the train arrives, it will be crowded and they will have to squeeze onboard. Then, they have to add a couple of extra minutes travel time between Charles and Park Street. All of a sudden, the Green Line connection doesn't look so bad after all.

JD

RailBus63 wrote:A Red Line-Blue Line connection at Charles would benefit only one group of riders - those going to/from Cambridge and points beyond.

Think about it. For your typical rider trying to get from East Boston to Red Line points south of Park Street, they will need to travel an extra five minutes beyond Government Center to Charles-MGH. They will then have to get from the Blue Line at below-street level to the elevated Red Line station. Then, they will have to wait outside for the next southbound Red Line train. Once the train arrives, it will be crowded and they will have to squeeze onboard. Then, they have to add a couple of extra minutes travel time between Charles and Park Street. All of a sudden, the Green Line connection doesn't look so bad after all.

JD

I couldn't disagree more. There is no way that it would take 5 minutes to get from GC to Charles. Its a 10 minute walk, tops so I figure 2-3 minutes for the BL unless its under some absurd speed restriction. (At least as long as Bowdin goes away.) It would benefit all people going from blue to red, but youre right it is most beneficial for people going either to MGH or Cambridge, but thats exactly where nearly everyone wants to go! The only Red stops south of Park that will be used frequently by blue riders are South Station and possibly JFK/UMass. Downtown Crossing is easily accessible from State, Park is close to Govt. Center and non of the other stops hold a significant value to the overwhelming majority of blue riders. Andrew, Broadway, and everything south of JFK are residential stops, with little recreational value, and few jobs.

So then lets talk convenience. Whats easier? Taking two trains, or three? I'm gonna go with two anytime, whether I'm going to Cambridge or Dorchester. LOTS of red line people get off at Charles, enough so that it may almost be enough to accomidate the extra blue riders. Waiting for the Red Line isn't that bad, especially compared to waiting for the Green Line, and then having to wait for the Red Line. As for being outside, isn't the new Charles supposed to be relatively closed in? Even if its not, Blue line riders are a hearty bunch. They all waited for the Blue Line right next to the water (except for Maverick residents) so I think they'll be alright. Thanks for your concern though!

Anyone know if it would be possible for an elevator to go straight from the below grade blue platforms to the elevated red platforms? Maybe even a direct escalator?

WBZ Radio was reporting last night that the MBTA has gotten environmental approval to go ahead with the Green Line extension to Somerville and West Medford... in lieu of the Blue/Red Connector *and* the Arborway Restoration!

What has happened, in fact, is that the allied DEP and EOT have agreed to their recommended revised slate of projects. The CLF, also a party to agreements requiring these projects, has not withdrawn its lawsuit demanding adherence to the original agreement.

People easily swayed by pronouncements that come from officials with big titles should take another look.

You should also hightail it down to Hale & Dorr (60 State St. tower) at 3 this afternoon (Central Artery Environmental Oversight Committee meeting -- open to the public) to hear Fred Salvucci's take on this. I think you'll find their logic to be less seamless than they'd have you believe.

Here's two links from the 11/21 Boston Globe regarding this decision:

http://www.boston.com/news/local/articl ... _projects/

http://www.boston.com/news/local/massac ... officials/

Well, hopefully partners files that lawsuit soon, as it would seem via there argument that they invested quite a bit for a blue-red link, and now there is becoming nothing of it after those $*&Y&YT&*YT @ the T weasled out of 2 projects, and those damn enviromentalists agreed!


arrrrrrg!