Hurricane Sandy

Major tunnel flooding with this much warning is simply unacceptable. If the NYP floodgates didn't work then someone needs to get on that as the major infrastructure requirement (the floodgates) are in place so all they need is the proper gasket. Re PATH and the NYCS I know they installed some flood protections, but it is clear that some sort of more comprehensive solution to plug the river crossings is needed.

The electricity and heat are nice too. It was a dark cold morning in New Jersey

To all those people who constantly complain about Amtrak's independent power grid ,|,, Two grids are better than one.

Jersey_Mike wrote:Major tunnel flooding with this much warning is simply unacceptable. If the NYP floodgates didn't work then someone needs to get on that as the major infrastructure requirement (the floodgates) are in place so all they need is the proper gasket. Re PATH and the NYCS I know they installed some flood protections, but it is clear that some sort of more comprehensive solution to plug the river crossings is needed.

NYCS flooded b/c the water poured into the stations. Not sure there's anything you could do to avoid that.

Jersey_Mike wrote:Major tunnel flooding with this much warning is simply unacceptable. If the NYP floodgates didn't work then someone needs to get on that as the major infrastructure requirement (the floodgates) are in place so all they need is the proper gasket. Re PATH and the NYCS I know they installed some flood protections, but it is clear that some sort of more comprehensive solution to plug the river crossings is needed.

Keeping this short. The main point of the floodgates is to protect the station from the tunnels, not the tunnels from the station
Water can enter from other points and not all end points have gates.

Your timetable didn't tell you that? Hahahaha!

It isn't hard to turn trains in NWK, especially with NJT sidelined. NWK has 6 tracks. You're also forgetting the electrics have two cabs. Cut it off and run around your consist. Additionally, it is not a designated facility, so you can turn and burn.

hi55us wrote:I'm guessing that Metro North will be the first railroad to operate into NYC, as the upper east side (where I live and where Metro North enters the city from) was the least impacted by the storm.

We never lost power (around 86th St.) and there are only some broken limbs on trees (no flooding as far as I can tell). The low-lying areas around Pelham Bay (on the hell gate line) are probably flooded and the line into NJ is most likely in rough shape through the Meadowlands between NYP and NWK.

This is not going to be an easy clean up job for Amtrak and NY City.

I highly doubt Metro-North is going to win the race to restoration. Check some of the photos in the Metro-North forum. While the East Side might've gotten lucky, Westchster/Dutchess/Putnam sure did not.

As posted in the LIRR Forum:

lirr42 wrote:The MTA uploaded 2 videos onto its YouTube Channel Wednesday showing inside camera footage from the East River Tunnels:

You can view the video here: MTA Video Release: Hurricane Sandy - LIRR East River Tunnel (1 of 2)
You can view the video here: MTA Video Release: Hurricane Sandy - LIRR East River Tunnel (2 of 2)

In Malaysia, they had to build a superhighway that floods intentionally during monsoons. The electronics, such as traffic siganls, are waterproofed. The flood gates open to allow water to get through the channel after the road is closed. Whatever rebuilds are done in NY, they are going to have to use water resistant materials, and allow for water to pass. In this event, the water pumps were still functional but there was nowhere to pump the water.

The newsline at the Trains magazine website has some more info than I've seen elsewhere:http://trn.trains.com/en/Railroad%20New ... heast.aspx (This is part of their subscriber area, so you may not be able to access if not a subscriber)

Most Northeast Regional trains serving northern Virginia; Washington, D.C.; and Philadelphia have resumed with several round-trips going as far north as Newark, while crews rush to pump salt water out of one of two Hudson River tunnels and begin repairing electrical infrastructure. New York’s Penn Station has been isolated because two of three East River tunnels linking the facility with the Hell Gate Bridge route to Boston and Sunnyside Yard in Queens also need to be pumped out, and a washout on Metro-North Commuter Railroad trackage north of New York prohibits entry of Empire Service trains into the city. On the route to Boston, a washout near Stonington, Conn., east of New London, is under repair and generators are deployed between New Haven and Old Saybrook, Conn., to power signals until commercial power is restored. Metro-North is also reactivating its signal system from New York into New Haven.

If I'm reading this correctly, there is one dry tunnel on the Hudson side of NYP and one on the East River side. Am I correct in assuming that MOW personnel will need use the dry tunnels to access the flooded ones?

That looks like it was coming in through one of the emergency exit shafts which would be inside the floodgates.

NYCS flooded b/c the water poured into the stations. Not sure there's anything you could do to avoid that.

Allowing water from a single point of failure to flood the entire system isn't the best design. The NYCTA did a pretty good job at sealing up some of the vulnerable locations, but it appears that in the future all of the lines through lower Manhattan will need to be isolated from the deep river crossings. I wouldn't give their preparations an F, but more like a C given the week of advance warning that was available to plug up the holes. Hopefully Amtrak will find some way to deal with the exit shafts and also any potential flood risk coming in from the Jersey side.

Keeping this short. The main point of the floodgates is to protect the station from the tunnels, not the tunnels from the station
Water can enter from other points and not all end points have gates.

They should protect both from both. Photos show that the West Side Yard aquadam was overtopped and who knows what was coming in through the Empire connector. Besides if they don't work in one direction they won't work in the other so if water did get through them they should be fixed.

There are a total of 4 East River Amtrak/LIRR tubes, so someone's arithmetic is deficient.

The 10 o'clock story has no Springfield shuttles.

AMTRAK SERVICE RESTORATION PLAN
Modified Northeast Regional service from Newark, N.J., to points south, some Downeaster service and Keystone service to operate; overnight train service restoration also underway
October 31, 2012 10:00 a.m. ET

Amtrak will provide modified Northeast Regional service between Newark, N.J., and points south, on Wednesday, October 31, including restoring Virginia service to Lynchburg, Richmond and Newport News. Amtrak will also operate Keystone Service trains between Harrisburg, Penn., and Philadelphia, and modified Downeaster service trains between Boston and Portland, Maine, along with some overnight services to and from the Northeast.
However, as in the case of other tunnel owners and operators in New York City, Amtrak is removing water and making repairs to track, signal and power systems within its tunnels under the Hudson and East rivers. The amount of water intrusion into the tunnels is unprecedented – as was the storm itself – so a date for restoration of Amtrak service directly to/from New York Penn Station from either the north or south is not available at this time.
Therefore, there will be no Northeast Regional service between Newark and Boston and no Acela Express service for the length of the Northeast Corridor on Wednesday, October 31. Also, at Newark Penn Station, there will be no connecting service to New York City.
Also canceled on Wednesday, October 31, is the Empire Service between New York City and Buffalo/Niagara Falls, the Adirondack to and from Montreal, Québec, Canada, and the Ethan Allen Express to and from Rutland, Vt., due to track damage south of Albany-Rensselaer, N.Y.

Other service plans, full and partial service, for Wednesday, October 31:
Crescent (Trains 19 & 20) will operate only between Washington D.C. and New Orleans
Cardinal (Train 51) will operate only between Indianapolis and Chicago
Auto Train (Train 52) will operate as schedule as scheduled between Sanford, Fla., and Lorton, Va.
Maple Leaf (Trains 63 & 64) will operate only between Toronto, Ontario, Canada, and Albany-Rensselaer
Carolinian (Trains 79 & 80) will operate only between Philadelphia and Charlotte
Silver Star (Trains 91 & 92) will only operate between Miami and Jacksonville, Fla.
Silver Meteor (Trains 97 & 98) will operate between Washington D.C. and Miami
Lake Shore Limited (Trains 448 & 449) will operate normally between Chicago and Boston, with no (Trains 48 & 49) service to points south of Albany-Rensselaer.

The following trains are also canceled Wednesday, October 31:
Shuttle trains, Springfield, Mass.-New Haven, Conn.
Capitol Limited (Trains 29 & 30), Chicago-Washington, D.C.
Pennsylvanian (Trains 42 & 43), Pittsburgh-New York City
Auto Train (Train 53), Lorton, Va.-Sanford, Fla.
Vermonter (Trains 55 & 56), St. Albans, Vt.-Washington, D.C.
Palmetto (Trains 89 & 90), New York-Savannah

Amtrak will update this statement by Wednesday evening, October 31.

All trains at Hartford, Conn. are sold out 10/30/12, through trains via the NorthEast Corridor are sold out 11/1/12, but shuttles have reservations available.

For 11/1/12, reservations are available on the 3:20 and 5:35 p.m. Regional trains from Boston to Washington, all others are Sold Out. Reservations are also available via Springfield, Mass. and New Haven.

From the Amtrak service alert:

However, as in the case of other tunnel owners and operators in New York City, Amtrak is removing water and making repairs to track, signal and power systems within its tunnels under the Hudson and East rivers. The amount of water intrusion into the tunnels is unprecedented – as was the storm itself – so a date for restoration of Amtrak service directly to/from New York Penn Station from either the north or south is not available at this time.


Needs clarification - I read the Trains article as both North River tunnels are flooded - they're currently working on drying one out and getting it working.

Did the Spuyten Duyvil Bridge survive the deluge?