Free Rides

If you really think about it, a little enforcement goes a long way. The biggest fear most have about being caught, is how you will look to everyone around you when a scene is made. At my work people have to show a card to enter the building, much like a show and go system. If a guard is lenient, no one shows, but when one is adament about seeing identification, it only takes a few times holding a full elevator for 1 person before they begin to get the picture. If more people are embarrassed in front of a station full of people, they wont keep trying to get by.

if you want to ride free, ride free.

if you don't don't.

how many people here can actually say it hurts them in anyway when some one gets on for free?

theseaandalifesaver wrote:if you want to ride free, ride free.

if you don't don't.

how many people here can actually say it hurts them in anyway when some one gets on for free?

Everyone who rides the T. On the Blue line, revenue went up something like 35% when they implimented the new gates. That gives you some idea how bad the problem is. If that many people paid the fare all along maybe they wouldn't be so far in debt.

JS

sabourinj wrote:Everyone who rides the T. On the Blue line, revenue went up something like 35% when they implimented the new gates. That gives you some idea how bad the problem is. If that many people paid the fare all along maybe they wouldn't be so far in debt.

JS

Ok, a couple things straight...

1. The fare collected increased because you have people standing there watching you, soon enough, the station will not be manned, you can go right under. They are also new, its only a matter of time before people find ways to get around them, i already have a couple of ideas and i dont even evade the fares (i have a monthly pass so it wouldnt do me any good even if I did).

2. Fare evasion has nothing to do with the T's debt. The revenue is molecular compared to the cost of operation. most of the T's income is tax $$ that cannot be invaded. The debt is caused by unreasonable spending, like a whole new automated fare system, for example.

CRail wrote: Ok, a couple things straight...

1. The fare collected increased because you have people standing there watching you, soon enough, the station will not be manned, you can go right under. They are also new, its only a matter of time before people find ways to get around them, i already have a couple of ideas and i dont even evade the fares (i have a monthly pass so it wouldnt do me any good even if I did).

2. Fare evasion has nothing to do with the T's debt. The revenue is molecular compared to the cost of operation. most of the T's income is tax $$ that cannot be invaded. The debt is caused by unreasonable spending, like a whole new automated fare system, for example.

How can you say that it has nothing to do with the debt? If you increase your income it obviously isn't going to hurt any. It won't eliminate it, but it certainly won't make it worse.

Also, you say when nobody is there you can "go right under." Have you seen the new gates? You can't go under them, and they are pretty high to jump over, especially the super tall ones in select stations. They close quite quickly if two people try to walk through (although it is possible, it's certainly harder than walking through the open wheelchair gates at current stations).

As for saying that an updated fare collection system is unreasonable, I'm not sure what planet you're on. Every other transit system in a major city has a more advanced system than we did. If the system really cuts down on fare evasion, offers more features than the old one (easier handicapped accessibility, stored value cards, visitor/weekly passes that aren't scratch off like a lottery ticket and can be used at the gate instead of shown to a collector) and in the long run brings in more $$ how is that unreasonable?

JS

sabourinj wrote:

theseaandalifesaver wrote:if you want to ride free, ride free.

if you don't don't.

how many people here can actually say it hurts them in anyway when some one gets on for free?

Everyone who rides the T. On the Blue line, revenue went up something like 35% when they implimented the new gates. That gives you some idea how bad the problem is. If that many people paid the fare all along maybe they wouldn't be so far in debt.

JS

i live along the blue line, and my friends and i find ways all the time to get onto the train for free.

theseaandalifesaver wrote:i live along the blue line, and my friends and i find ways all the time to get onto the train for free.

Im thinking now with the new and improved fare gates, that should be alot harder ! (hopefully impossible)

If the revenues go up, MBTA stops crying about not having $$ for mandated projects like red-blue connection and arborway, and those things can get done (and maybe an extention to lynn while there at it )

CJ wrote: Im thinking now with the new and improved fare gates, that should be alot harder ! (hopefully impossible)

If the revenues go up, MBTA stops crying about not having $$ for mandated projects like red-blue connection and arborway, and those things can get done (and maybe an extention to lynn while there at it )

It certainly isn't impossible. Although I did find it really funny when I saw a couple teenage guys and one was saying how easy it is to get through the new gates, and then it snapped shut in between them.

The key is more enforcement. I have never seen an MBTA employee respond to one of the alarms going off (granted it's frequent now as people are still getting used to it.) Hopefully they'll have transit police watch in the future and snag people who set it off. I have noticed they go off more frequently on Sundays as people go through w/ their free guest. You are supposed to put the pass through twice so that it knows to let the second person through (this works on Sundays, other days it says the pass was already used at the station within 15 minutes... also a shock to people who seem to think a pass should let them and all their friends through for free).

JS

CJ wrote:

theseaandalifesaver wrote:i live along the blue line, and my friends and i find ways all the time to get onto the train for free.

Im thinking now with the new and improved fare gates, that should be alot harder ! (hopefully impossible)

If the revenues go up, MBTA stops crying about not having $$ for mandated projects like red-blue connection and arborway, and those things can get done (and maybe an extention to lynn while there at it )

A. I'm, They're, "money", a (space) lot.

B. My friends find loop holes around EVERYTHING. Included charlie and his gang of tickets.

Ok, Sabourinj,
You are correct that incresed fare collection would not hurt, but it would hardly help. Like I said, it would just be a few dollars more that the T would spend. They may make a few thousand more dollars a month. Which sounds like a lot, but when you think about the equipment being maintained, the utility bills, the salaries/pensions, new equip being purchased... it does next to nothing. Of course it wouldnt hurt, but it really wouldnt help all that much either, the debt would be the same.

In reguards to having seen the new expensive flood gates, i live in cambridge, not under a rock, yes i've seen them, and someone can easily go under the gate, its at least a foot and a half off the ground. Not everyone could get under, but i certainly could. And they are open for about 2 seconds, you could get 2 people through there easy, 3 or 4 if your good. If you still dont believe me, come meet me somewhere and i will demonstrate for you.

I never said a new collection system is unreasonable, this one is. I'm pretty sure this is planet earth. Most transit systems still have turnstiles, just modified ones that you cant jump over or pull back and squeez through. The system, as i explained, will not cut down on fare evasion. I saw nothing wrong with showing daily passes to someone who is otherwise unemployed (and before im corrected, im not saying all the collectors will be laid off, so dont even try), and the stored value cards are nice, but what happens when the machines (who's predecessor couldnt handle taking dollars and spitting out tokens without being broken all the time) fail, which they will begin to after about a month or so. So when they all fail, what are we going to do? hold one gate open and let everyone through for free? how does that bring in more money?

The thread stays.

Yes, it's fine with me also, I'll leave it open here as well.

And Karl, I removed your earlier posts as you requested.

Just let it be known that we do not support fare evasion on the MBTA or anywhere else.

CRail wrote:Ok, Sabourinj,
You are correct that incresed fare collection would not hurt, but it would hardly help. Like I said, it would just be a few dollars more that the T would spend. They may make a few thousand more dollars a month. Which sounds like a lot, but when you think about the equipment being maintained, the utility bills, the salaries/pensions, new equip being purchased... it does next to nothing. Of course it wouldnt hurt, but it really wouldnt help all that much either, the debt would be the same.

In reguards to having seen the new expensive flood gates, i live in cambridge, not under a rock, yes i've seen them, and someone can easily go under the gate, its at least a foot and a half off the ground. Not everyone could get under, but i certainly could. And they are open for about 2 seconds, you could get 2 people through there easy, 3 or 4 if your good. If you still dont believe me, come meet me somewhere and i will demonstrate for you.

I never said a new collection system is unreasonable, this one is. I'm pretty sure this is planet earth. Most transit systems still have turnstiles, just modified ones that you cant jump over or pull back and squeez through. The system, as i explained, will not cut down on fare evasion. I saw nothing wrong with showing daily passes to someone who is otherwise unemployed (and before im corrected, im not saying all the collectors will be laid off, so dont even try), and the stored value cards are nice, but what happens when the machines (who's predecessor couldnt handle taking dollars and spitting out tokens without being broken all the time) fail, which they will begin to after about a month or so. So when they all fail, what are we going to do? hold one gate open and let everyone through for free? how does that bring in more money?

Most transit systems have turnstiles? What about the Washington DC Metro that most people accept should be the standard for US Subway systems? They don't have traditional turnstiles. Check out http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/SmarTrip.

There's a 1 foot gap under the "flood gates"? I don't think much more than a rodent could fit under them. Anyone who has not seen, check out http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/c ... es.agr.jpg (I wish I had a picture of the 8' tall ones with a metal grate above that, need you think about going over them).

And lastly, no I don't need a demonstration. I don't support fare evasion.

JS

savebowdoin wrote: This is not true... the gates have sensors which, unless you are all strapped to each other in one large, uninterrupted mass, will snap shut between you. It is hard enough to get a bag of luggage through at the same time as you, let alone two or three other people.
The wheelchair gates perhaps could allow two people through, if they were completely touching and walking in unison, but even those gates have sensors that won't allow multiple people through. The gates don't stay open for a set time if it detects more than one person going though; if this was the case then it would be a wild mess where only half (at best) of the customers pay.

The new gates are much more effective than tunrstiles ever were. Even in New York where they have newer, modified turnstiles, people jump them left and right. It's a lot easier and quicker to jump or slide under a turnstile than one of these new gates (I'm not saying its impossible, but it requires a lot more noticeable work, like sliding along the ground on your stomach)

Mike

Thank you. The MBTA has already released hard numbers about the increase revenue on the blue line, yet some people refuse to accept that as proof that they help not eliminate the problem.

Not to mention that if several people try to walk through these an annoying alarm goes off, and then it comes down to enforcement. If you have Transit Police there to snag people that set off the alarm, you'll hear it less and less. I have only seen one person try to get over these gates, he tripped on the glass plate and landed flat on his face.

By the way, if you're travelling with multiple people (free guest on Sunday, or multiple people on one stored value ticket, you can put the ticket through the appropriate number of times and then all walk through, it is smart enough to count you all and not set off the alarm. Or if you put your ticket in and someone comes through to exit at the same time, it will still let you through after they are out of the way.

JS

Next time i see a fair evador i am either going to punch him in the face, or stop buying t passes, because the T people obviously don't care.