First Day for the Route 15

I saw plenty of trolleys this morning on Route 15 along with some busses. I took the 10 to Girard, and had trouble finding a trolley stop until I realized they were only in the center of the street along that part of Girard Ave. The signs kept saying go to the next block. The trolley ride eastbound was slow, and the operator had trouble turning the S curve due to an illegally parked car. It would make sense to repaint the no-parking zones along the street where trolleys might become blocked.
The noise inside the trolley was relatively loud when the car accelerated, and was much louder than the K cars. Also, the seat windows seem to be a single layer of plastic, and not glass. I guess they can be easily replaced when they get scratched up. Also, the ceiling molding in the back of the car was coming out between the plastic panels on both sides of the car. The seats were very comfortable, and were a green color. Overall, the interior was very nice except for the windows.
There were some complaints about how slow the trolley was moving, but I think that should improve over time. Hopefully, the situation will improve over time. Tuesday will be the real test.

jfrey40535 wrote:As of 11AM this morning the 15 is being run entirely by bus. From what I saw since it started, its clear that SEPTA wanted this to fail before it even started.

I'm glad I didn't see your message before I went to Philly at mid day. I would have missed out on my second day of riding and photographing the PCC IIs.

http://www.transitspot.com/gallery/Bobs ... 5_09_05_02

http://www.transitspot.com/gallery/Bobs ... 5_09_05_05

http://www.transitspot.com/gallery/Bobs ... 5_09_05_06

http://www.transitspot.com/gallery/Bobs ... 5_09_05_12

http://www.transitspot.com/gallery/Bobs ... 5_09_05_15

Bob

This weekend, there were periods when the line was serviced by %100 bus. This morning, I only saw one bus on Girard. Because of the service meltdown this weekend, I became a hypocrite and decided to return to driving my car this morning on the route 15 portion of my commute. I will observe the line this week and see how things pan out. I judge the service on this line, bus or trolley, by how many people are standing on the corner of Front and Girard when I leave the El station around 5:00 PM - More then 25 people means there is a meltdown.

Again, the word on the streets is not good; honestly, you can’t blame them. I am not one for conspiracy theories, but man, it really does look like SEPTA set this up to fail.

Let's not entirely blame SEPTA, let's talk to all those trolley operators that called in "sick."

My wife took the trolley in this morning no problem, a few minutes late but she still got to work ontime. The operator was apologetic.

Its easy to say SEPTA conspired to make the line fail, but unfortunately I think it really is something beyond their control.

Let's not entirely blame SEPTA, let's talk to all those trolley operators that called in "sick."

Here's the problem with the 15, and its one that won't go away: This was labor day weekend, any 15 operators who had any vacation time probablly decided to take time off. They're entitled to it just like the rest of us. The problem is, when a trolley operator calls out sick, takes off, etc. the dispatcher has to go to the extra board to fill in that block. The extras sitting around or who are on call are not qualified to drive trolleys. They didn't receive the training, and it would be unfair to expect SEPTA to train all these extras who are floating around until they get their own route to be trained on the trolleys. IT would be a never ending process.

So what happens is, a spare driver is needed, so they have no choice but to send a bus out. Its always going to be a problem as the 15 is the only trolley route out of Callowhill. Even when the 10 moves over in January, those operators will most likely not be qualified on the PCC's, and those operators won't be available to do 15 runs anyway. So this is a problem that won't go away. Not the end of the world, will just mean that the "occasional" bus will always be out on the 15.

jfrey40535 wrote:My wife took the trolley in this morning no problem, a few minutes late but she still got to work ontime. The operator was apologetic.

Its easy to say SEPTA conspired to make the line fail, but unfortunately I think it really is something beyond their control.

Let's not entirely blame SEPTA, let's talk to all those trolley operators that called in "sick."

Here's the problem with the 15, and its one that won't go away: This was labor day weekend, any 15 operators who had any vacation time probablly decided to take time off. They're entitled to it just like the rest of us. The problem is, when a trolley operator calls out sick, takes off, etc. the dispatcher has to go to the extra board to fill in that block. The extras sitting around or who are on call are not qualified to drive trolleys. They didn't receive the training, and it would be unfair to expect SEPTA to train all these extras who are floating around until they get their own route to be trained on the trolleys. IT would be a never ending process.

So what happens is, a spare driver is needed, so they have no choice but to send a bus out. Its always going to be a problem as the 15 is the only trolley route out of Callowhill. Even when the 10 moves over in January, those operators will most likely not be qualified on the PCC's, and those operators won't be available to do 15 runs anyway. So this is a problem that won't go away. Not the end of the world, will just mean that the "occasional" bus will always be out on the 15.

The 10 is already up at Calllowhill. And wow you're actually deffending SEPTA this is a Kodak moment!

Here's a PCC III for you: http://www.skoda.cz/produkty.asp?Q853A= ... 1K61ID3348

They're 66 feet long, 96 inches wide, with no single rigid section longer than 45 feet. The two bogied LRV has a low floor and thus is quick to board passengers with disabilities, features shared components with the PCC IIs (same motors), and is designed to cope with rather lightly constructed street trackage. A group in Oregon is working to produce either a variant of the 3T or the bidirectional 10T here in the States as Portland Streetcar has come to like their 10Ts. It's time for SEPTA to join the 1980s and lose the poles, implement POP, and go with vehicles better suited to their passengers than the PCCs and K-cars. They've had articulated buses for nearly 20 years now, articulated LRVs aren't going to kill them. Multi-door boarding with SF Muni style POP is certainly doable, it works in Newark and Camden New Jersey and I'm sure folks used to crowding onto a Neoplan on the Rt23 at Erie or Market would be much appreciative. Now that the 15 is back it is time to push for the 23 and 56 to come back, regardless of how SEPTA paints the Rt15's return, those 'bustitutions' are temporary and it's time to remind SEPTA of that.

The 10 is already up at Calllowhill. And wow you're actually deffending SEPTA this is a Kodak moment!

I didn't know that....but good! And I'm not exactly happy out "defending" SEPTA, but its the truth, I mean what else can they realistically do? Maybe (big IF) now that the 10 is at Callowhill maybe it would make sense to have a few operators on the slate cross-trained, but I don't see that as being viable or likely. Although I'm assuming with every pick, if new operators get assigned to the 15, they will have to hold special training sessions as they do with every other division. Actually, that might make sense!!! If SEPTA does have to train a new group of operators for an upcoming pick, why not throw in the guys on the slate?

Maybe since this was the first schedule with the 15 as trolley they didn't have the time/resources to do so. I heard the current operators only received 8 hours of refresher training for this schedule.

By the way, does anyone else think the cars will run *faster* once the operators get comfortable with the line and everything is broken in?

jfrey40535 wrote:

The 10 is already up at Calllowhill. And wow you're actually deffending SEPTA this is a Kodak moment!

I didn't know that....but good! And I'm not exactly happy out "defending" SEPTA, but its the truth, I mean what else can they realistically do? Maybe (big IF) now that the 10 is at Callowhill maybe it would make sense to have a few operators on the slate cross-trained, but I don't see that as being viable or likely. Although I'm assuming with every pick, if new operators get assigned to the 15, they will have to hold special training sessions as they do with every other division. Actually, that might make sense!!! If SEPTA does have to train a new group of operators for an upcoming pick, why not throw in the guys on the slate?

Maybe since this was the first schedule with the 15 as trolley they didn't have the time/resources to do so. I heard the current operators only received 8 hours of refresher training for this schedule.

By the way, does anyone else think the cars will run *faster* once the operators get comfortable with the line and everything is broken in?

Within time, a lot of regular passengers will probably be able to predict when an operator is going to fast and will lose the pole. As a rider of one of the few trolley pole equipped services outside Philly, I can usually predict with about 50% accuracy when we're gonna lose poles on our trackless trolleys. Also, during a previous schedule change, one of my regular trips had a first time trackless driver - over the course of a month, I could notice how she went from pretty slow thru the special work to faster and faster, and after about 30 days she was as fast as the 'veterans.'

Do switches and special work cause severe delays on the sunway surface lines? If no, then you know the 15 *should* be okay.

But, it would seem that at some point, SEPTA should consider going to pans for the trolleys. The covnersion wasn't too painful on the Red Arrow side, was it?

Otto Vondrak wrote:Let's not entirely blame SEPTA, let's talk to all those trolley operators that called in "sick."

I’ll always blame SEPTA %100 for any burp in the system . Yes, SEPTA employees can cause problems, but quite honestly, majority of their detrimental actions can be very predictable.

I totally understand that running a transit agency is tough with many variables and unforeseen snags; but SEPTA just finds way to make it tougher…


As to the trolleys speeding up; I would say yes, as mentioned above, give an operator a few weeks and they’ll be whipping around; except under the bridge by Somerset St. I was walking my dog the other day under the bridge when a trolley approached – we beat it out.

Because then you'll complain that he's screwing over the disabled in favor of wealthy BIG TRANSIT "fat cats". The problem here, is that you're looking to the government for a solution, when in fact you can see clearly that the government is the problem.

Extremes are bad, not government. The everything should be accessable lobby is just as bad as the put the disabled in the gas chamber lobby. Government's job is, ideally, to find the best compromise.

jfrey40535 wrote:

The 10 is already up at Calllowhill. And wow you're actually deffending SEPTA this is a Kodak moment!

I didn't know that....but good! And I'm not exactly happy out "defending" SEPTA, but its the truth, I mean what else can they realistically do? Maybe (big IF) now that the 10 is at Callowhill maybe it would make sense to have a few operators on the slate cross-trained, but I don't see that as being viable or likely. Although I'm assuming with every pick, if new operators get assigned to the 15, they will have to hold special training sessions as they do with every other division. Actually, that might make sense!!! If SEPTA does have to train a new group of operators for an upcoming pick, why not throw in the guys on the slate?

Maybe since this was the first schedule with the 15 as trolley they didn't have the time/resources to do so. I heard the current operators only received 8 hours of refresher training for this schedule.

By the way, does anyone else think the cars will run *faster* once the operators get comfortable with the line and everything is broken in?

I was out today and saw a training car at 63rd & Girard. He is a slate operator so it looks like they will be able run the cars as well.

An arguement can be made that if every other vehicle is ADA compliant then the route is too. I mean if the lift breaks on a bus I doubt they'd pull it out of service. Why can't the damned bush administration be good for something and grant a waiver for the K-cars over the entirety of the SEPTA trolley network.

You wouldn't like to wait if you were that disabled person. I now I wouldn't.

Why couldn't SEPTA get a variance though if they instituted ParaTransit along the route?? How many disabled passengers on average per weekday?? Any stats??

SEPTA should never have ended these services 13 years ago when they did. It was disgraceful!! Other cities at the time were vying for federal funds to re-start their old trolleys or implement new LRT systems. Why SEPTA shut down existing routes instead of trying to upgrade them to LRT was beyond me.

In the last 13 years you have had new services start in Dallas, Houston, Salt Lake, Denver, St Louis, New Orleans, to name a few. How shortsighted SEPTA was to close theirs down. If they were constantly running, no need to deal with the ADA issue - they were grandfathered.

SFO and New Orleans are the only other cities I know of that re-started PCC services. Were there similar problems there??

How is re-starting a service with rebuilt PCC cars different form starting a brand new service?? Don't all systems have bugs to be worked out, as well as training issues??

Well today went a hell of a lot better than Sunday and ran a whole
lot smoother with some exceptions. For starters I saw a training car
(2337) training what I found out was a slate operator. I then got on
2328 which was right behind it. This operator, to many of the
riders' schagrin, drove the thing like he was scared to death of it.
I don't think we ever broke 25 the whole trip. He did not have the
braking down at all. He would brake waaay too early and pull offs
were horrid as well. The wire frog at 48th & Lancaster needs to be
looked at as well cause once again the pole dewired (as many have)
turning eastbound back on to Girard.

Coming back down was a different story. I rode 2335 with a healthy
sized load most of the way. The operator of this car was the direct
opposite of 2328's as he horse the hell out of the it. My hunch is
that he is a former Callowhill Rail operator judging by his service
pins and the feel he had for the car.

Also I saw all of two buses out on the line today which is a good
thing. By the end of the week we should see 100% trolley service.
Service was also on or close to schedule and the "three cars then
nothing for for 45 mins" that was experienced on Sunday wasn't
expercienced today.

You can check out pictures from today here:

http://pg.photos.yahoo.com/ph/gameshowd ... ?.dir=7a92

Service was also on or close to schedule and the "three cars then
nothing for for 45 mins" that was experienced on Sunday wasn't
expercienced today.

Definitely. The only holdups that were going on today were wheelchairs. Kind of funny how when the line was bus there were no wheelchairs, now they're out in force. I don't agree with them either. Definitely not fair to make 30 people late for one person, but I think this all stems from Paratransit being run so poorly.

There will always be 2 "protect" buses on call just in case something goes wrong, but it should be nowhere as bad as Sunday. I noticed alot of people on the western side of Broad Street were enthused about it as well, which is a good sign. It would be nice to think that this could start a trolley movement here, but its gotta come from the city for it to happen.

At the very least, I think we should write Street & Rendell and thank them for their efforts in getting this line running.