Encounter With CSX Police @ Buffalo Central Terminal

I had one encounter with a cop who I thought treated me with absolutely no respect. I did nothing to create the situation. I was so steamed after that I should have gone to the town's police chief and complained. There is no reason for an authority figure (if you will) to treat you like a parent/5 yr old kid relationship, and a bad one at that.

Yet after all that, I guess I can also understand why they take the "hard-ass" approach. If they are nice and sweet to you, you may not take them serious and continue to do what you did. If they scare the crap out of you, probably a good chance you won't do it again. I don't like it, but I can understand it

enforcing laws and regulations does not excuse lack of professionalism, I retired from law enforcement 7 years ago and saw this attitude on the up swing back then. Railroad Police are empowered to protect railroad property and enforce laws on railroad property. So when observing someone on railroad property that person is violating the Law and in the current age of global terrorism, heighten security, and fighting for Home land Security funds, some agressive behavior can be expected. Be careful, be patient, be safe, unless authorized by a Railroad official with a signed release, stay off of Railroad property.

roadster wrote: in the current age of global terrorism, heighten security, and fighting for Home land Security funds, some agressive behavior can be expected.

I think that's exactly what's happened here. It's sort of a shame in that we can say that terrorism may not be winning, but is impacting & changing the way we live. Generally not for the better....................

Everyone, I took the story down becasue I don't want to damage relations (if we even have any anymore) with CSX. But if you want the basics of the story, here it goes....

First of all, the station platform on Curtiss St. is the terminals property. We know this from a survey done by the city of Buffalo. A group of us from the restoration corporation were walking this platform, discussing plans to clean it up, when a CSX cop came balzing up Curtiss St. lights flashing and everything.

This cop, a big guy with a buzz cut and glasses gets out and asks us for all our ID's. We first tried to explain to him who we were, and what we were doing there, but he wanted to here non of it. While doing something with our ID's in his truck, 2 Buffalo police cars come racing up. The Buffalo cop asks us some questions, and then they end up leaving.

The cop comes back with our ID's and starts to lecture us on the dangers of the neighborhood, and how unsafe it is to be so close to the track. Sorry officer, next time we'll build our train station father from the tracks!

Kidding aside, we are very well aware of the neighborhood. Probably a lot more so then he is! Also, the current ROW is about 15-20 feet from this platform. You would have to go out of your way to get in danger, and we are all smarter than that.

Now, scottychaos made a really good point early on. Had we not been with the restoration corporation, and a bunch of kids, wishing to do more damage, than this post might be me thanking the CSX police. At the central terminal we are in a very odd position, unlike any other around, an abandoned train station, surrounded by live tracks. I still have mixed feelings about it, I'm glad the police are there, and watching, but I still feel as though I have been violated, for no reason.

Sim Trains,
I caught the original post, and like Scot, IMO the problem wasn't that he questioned you, it's just that he didn't know when to stop. I'm guessing he's kinda like a mall security guard. Wants to be in law enforcement but couldn't make the police academy. Questioning you guys was probably the highlight of his year to date!
I think you have the right mindset, just swallow the anger and let it go, but if the same guy does it again next time......

SimTrains wrote:Everyone, I took the story down becasue I don't want to damage relations (if we even have any anymore) with CSX. But if you want the basics of the story, here it goes....

First of all, the station platform on Curtiss St. is the terminals property. We know this from a survey done by the city of Buffalo. A group of us from the restoration corporation were walking this platform, discussing plans to clean it up, when a CSX cop came balzing up Curtiss St. lights flashing and everything.

This cop, a big guy with a buzz cut and glasses gets out and asks us for all our ID's. We first tried to explain to him who we were, and what we were doing there, but he wanted to here non of it. While doing something with our ID's in his truck, 2 Buffalo police cars come racing up. The Buffalo cop asks us some questions, and then they end up leaving.

The cop comes back with our ID's and starts to lecture us on the dangers of the neighborhood, and how unsafe it is to be so close to the track. Sorry officer, next time we'll build our train station father from the tracks!

Kidding aside, we are very well aware of the neighborhood. Probably a lot more so then he is! Also, the current ROW is about 15-20 feet from this platform. You would have to go out of your way to get in danger, and we are all smarter than that.

Now, scottychaos made a really good point early on. Had we not been with the restoration corporation, and a bunch of kids, wishing to do more damage, than this post might be me thanking the CSX police. At the central terminal we are in a very odd position, unlike any other around, an abandoned train station, surrounded by live tracks. I still have mixed feelings about it, I'm glad the police are there, and watching, but I still feel as though I have been violated, for no reason.

In my opinion, you should get a legal opinion from the city or whatever as
to just who owns the property where you had this encounter. If this officer was within his rights, you need to back off. If, however, you were
within your rights to be where you were, you should persue this matter as
far as necessary to insure that it does not happen again.
You might even want to contact your attorney, I am assuming that your
group most likely has an attorney.
If you had to cross railroad property to be where you were at the time, it
could be another problem.
What you really need most is answers.
Noel Weaver

The originator of this thread has asked me to lock this thread and remove it. I have no opinion either way, but let's pelase NOT turn this into a bash-the-cops free-for-all. We all have horror stories and we all have encounters to talk about.

-otto-

SimTrains,

You might be interested to know that it's not just CSX cops who do this kind of thing, us guys down on Long Island get the same type of crap from the MTA police, except more frequently. On the plus side, at least Buffalo PD responded in your case; they carry some real authority and knowledge of the law (don't take that the wrong way, as far as i know the CSX cops are very good, it's just that the city PD would know better what's allowed and what's not). Down on the island, the MTA police seem to have a militia complex, thinking they can do whatever they want without consulting those who would know best: the NYPD.

his cop, a big guy with a buzz cut and glasses gets out and asks us for all our ID's. We first tried to explain to him who we were, and what we were doing there, but he wanted to here non of it. While doing something with our ID's in his truck, 2 Buffalo police cars come racing up. The Buffalo cop asks us some questions, and then they end up leaving.

The cop comes back with our ID's and starts to lecture us on the dangers of the neighborhood, and how unsafe it is to be so close to the track. Sorry officer, next time we'll build our train station father from the tracks!

That's two for two! More obvious terriorists on the prowl.
The choice beyween walking around there or crossing the intersection of Walden and Union would be a easy one. The Depot is MUCH safer!
and he says he doesn't harrass rail fans..............

but let's pelase NOT turn this into a bash-the-cops free-for-all

It's not the cops that are being "bashed" Otto.
The thread should be renamed: "Terrorist railfans running amuck at Central Terminal, take cover."

Hahah - hey, maybe we all need to switch to decaf for a couple of days.

-otto-

Lirr168 wrote:On the plus side, at least Buffalo PD responded in your case; they carry some real authority and knowledge of the law (don't take that the wrong way, as far as i know the CSX cops are very good, it's just that the city PD would know better what's allowed and what's not). Down on the island, the MTA police seem to have a militia complex, thinking they can do whatever they want without consulting those who would know best: the NYPD.

You are dead wrong.

The railroad police do carry real authority. Granted, a corporate RR police officer's powers diminish once he's off RR property - but they receive the same training as their municipal counterparts - in addition to specialized training that pertains to RR police. Don't underestimate them. If anyone would know laws pertaining to railroads and railroad property, it would be the RR police, not the Buffalo police. Corporate RR police aren't going to perform duties off railroad property unless they're investigating a crime that occured on RR property.

The MTA - being a public authority carry police power on and off RR property. They are also more vigilant because they patrol commuter railroads which are more of a tempting target for terrorists (remember the incident in Madrid, Spain?). Again - the MTA police are also trained to the same standards as municipal police and receive specialized training that pertains to their job. If there's a problem on a train or station platform - if you call 911, the MTA police will be dispatched.

SimTrains wrote:This cop, a big guy with a buzz cut and glasses gets out and asks us for all our ID's. We first tried to explain to him who we were, and what we were doing there, but he wanted to here non of it. While doing something with our ID's in his truck, 2 Buffalo police cars come racing up. The Buffalo cop asks us some questions, and then they end up leaving.

Perhaps a letter to the local CSX police office explaining who the organization is, the property that they own (with a survey map), and the typical activities performed the group would go a long way in ensuring that the CSX police will become an ally rather than an enemy. With 100's of miles of track to patrol, countless yards and other structures along the way, every cop cannot know every detail of who belongs where based on the say-so of a bunch of people hanging around next to the ROW. May not hurt to erect some kind of fence between the station property and the CSX ROW (i.e., orange snow fence) and issue ID cards to those authorized to be on the property.

I must admit I've never seen a CSX patrol vehicle during any of my railfan events. I'm curious as to what one looks like. Does it have the usual gumballs on the roof with brightly painted sides - like a sheriff car? ... or are they a little less noticeable in appearance - like a detective vehicle?

Before this encounter I had never seen on either. It was a white bronco. Nice and shiney, fairly new. I don't remember exact specifics about where the lights were, but there were a ton of them!!! Red and blue flashers, strobes, the whole 9 yards. All I remember of the lettering on the side was in gold and black the word POLICE.

Perhaps a letter to the local CSX police office explaining who the organization is, the property that they own (with a survey map), and the typical activities performed the group would go a long way in ensuring that the CSX police will become an ally rather than an enemy.

A complete waste of time. They know what is going on there. They know the property limits.
The letter needs to go to your elected officials as far up the chain as possible and I don't mean town/city/village either!