Connecticut Southern (CSOR) Discussion

Lincoln78 wrote:http://www.courant.com/community/new-br ... 1550.story

Railroad On Verge of Rehabbing Bridge From Hartford To East Hartford - lists some CSOR customers "east of the river"

CT will will pay $3 million toward replacing rusted support beams and worn ties and braces on the bridge.

Big deal for them. Both the Armory and Manchester Sec. are 286K rated, but the weight restrictions on the bridge were preventing CSO and CNZR from taking advantage of their native capacity.

Now if the state and Amtrak could only get the other CT River bridge rehabbed to 286K so the heavyweights can get to/from Hartford Yard and the outside world. . .



There any rumors afoot with Massachusetts buying the Conn River from PAS that overhead rights will ever be in-play finally direct-linking RailAmerica/G&W's two Southern New England subsidiaries? Something's still got to be in it for PAS in order to happen, but the prospects just got a whole lot better with the public takeover of that trackage. Uniting NECR and CSO with a thru connection (possibly even under a single operating mark) would definitely fit G&W's lean-ship corporate modus.

boatsmate wrote:I assume this is the Hartford location??

Yes, South Hartford, near the Brainard Road Airport.

Not sure how to ask this... Could someone please explain the operations of Hartford yard versus East Hartford yard? Is it a capacity issue? Logistics? New Haven, PC/Conrail , CSOR ops appreciated. Thanks!!

^brief, fair-use quote:

The state will pay $3 million toward replacing rusted support beams and worn ties and braces on the bridge, which spans the Connecticut River a short distance upstream from the Bulkeley Bridge.

Connecticut Southern Railroad plans to seek bids in the next few weeks and says it can start work as soon as contracts are signed and materials arrive.

The company, a short-haul freight operator, owns the line that runs from the Hartford rail yard to Manchester. It links companies in East Hartford, Manchester and Windsor to Amtrak's Springfield to New Haven branch; without that connection, those businesses would have to ship by truck, relocate or close.

"This is an investment that's going to protect hundreds of jobs," said state Sen. Gary LeBeau, D-East Hartford, who last year secured $3 million in state bonding for the work. "It prevents more traffic on the roads. And I believe manufacturing will come back. When that happens, having this [rail line] is going to help development all through this district."

The east-of-the-river line serves the Central CT Co-Op animal feed facility in Manchester, the East Hartford-based CelluTissue, Berlin Oil, Hartford Freezers, the Hudson-Baylor recycled glass operation in East Windsor, and various warehouses, according to Charles Hunter, a CSO executive.

Does anyone know what days csor runs trains or is it as needed?

JonnyRay wrote:Does anyone know what days csor runs trains or is it as needed?

There is definitely a schedule to the CSOR trains, but it is subject to flux. Your best bet is to inquire on the CTShortlines YAhoo group about the latest scheduled. Below, I have cut and pasted some information I gathered about a year ago on that Yahoo group.

BWP

TRAINS THROUGH HARTFORD, CT

Can anyone provide a brief overview of the current Freight Traffic that comes
through Hartford? Obviously, CSOR would be the most frequent, with the rare
PanAm run between Plainville and East Deerfield.
Are there any resources online for current schedules of operations? If not, can
anyone provide a brief summary. I realize any schedule info is ballpark at
best. My guess is most CSOR stuff runs at night, but perhaps there is some
daytime stuff, or on weekends. Also, any resources for Scanner frequencies
and/or timetables with mileposts?
Thanks,
Brooks

Re: Freight Traffic Through Hartford
Someone else is probably more knowledgeable than me on this but here's what I
know:
Springfield Line freq. is 160.920- Outside of yard chatter this will give the
most information regarding CSO, Amtrak, and PAR moves. Hartford Yard and the PAS
Waterbury Branch are controlled by hand-throw switches, so any CSO train leaving
Hartford as well as any Guilford train coming on or off at Berlin will be
talking to the dispatcher to request permission to enter the main. They will
also call when they are "lined and locked" and on the move.
CSO-4 leaves Hartford M-F between 9 and 10, and will follow Amtrak 490 up to
Springfield. They usually leave WSP between 12:30 and 2 and will meet one or
both Vermonters at either Windsor or Enfield (FIELD).
There used to be a Saturday CSO-4, but it's schedule was a lot more changeable
and it might have been cancelled during the recession.
CSO-1 is out of the Hartford Yard once 476 is north of them, usually around
6:20-6:40PM. Occasionally they slip out early and meet Amtrak at Newington
Junction. They come back on 148's heels around 9:30PM.
I've never caught CSO-2, 3, or 5; but here's a synopsis of what I've heard, most
of it coming from this list: CSO-3 works the recycling plant in the south end of
Hartford, as well as the Manchester Branch and possibly the Armory as well; day
job, usually on duty 7-8AM timeframe. CSO-2 works south on the Springfield Line
to Wallingford and CSO-5 goes up to Enfield and works the Suffield branch; both
of these are night jobs. You can probably find more about these in the list
archives, though many of these jobs have changed since the recession.
EDPL comes down seemingly whenever PAR feels like it, but hitting Hartford
around 12:30-1 on a Tuesday or Wednesday seems to be their most common slot.
This way they can slip off the main in Berlin before the NB Vermonter shows up.
PLED will usually go north on Saturday and will be out of Berlin anytime between
10 and 2. If you can, the best bet is to show up at Plainville and chase them
from there. Otherwise, listen for them asking for permission to enter the main
at Berlin.
I've never seen CNZR, so I can't be of much help there. For the Griffin Line
(Hartford-Bloomfield), they keep their power off Day Hill Rd. in Bloomfield, if
they're out and about then one of the units will be missing.
Relevant Mileposts on the Springfield Line, going north, are:
20- QUARRY (Quarry Junction)- north end of double track in Meriden
26- Berlin depot, junction with PAS Waterbury Branch
31- NEW (Newington Junction)- south end of Newington siding
33.5- WOOD (Elmwood)- Oakwood Ave. grade crossing, north end of the controlled
siding, beginning of running track up to PARK (sometimes MOW clears up in here)
35- PARK (Parkville)- end of running track
36.5- Hartford Station, CNZR Junction
37- HART- south end of the yard
39- FRY (Fishfry Street)- north end of the yard
40- Windsor Hot Box Detector
43- WINDSOR Interlocking- south end of double track, Windsor station
46- HAYDEN- north end of double track
48.5- Windsor Locks, junction with Suffield branch
55- FIELD (Enfield)- South end of double track all the way to Springfield (MP
62)
Freight speed is mostly 40-45 on the Amtrak main with the exception of the CT
River Bridge (~MP 49.5) and downtown Hartford (PARK-HART) which are both 10mph
restrictions. All of the other CSOR and PAS trackage is 10mph.
Hope that helps!
Ian

Re: Freight Traffic Through Hartford
I'll add my two cents worth and clarify a few things.
There are no separate CSO2 and CSO5 jobs anymore. A few years ago there were
combined into one job. MWF that job does what was traditionally the CSO2 work
south of Hartford. TTF they do the work north of Hartford that was CSO5's. Most
of the time I think they just call themselves CSO2 now regardless of what work
they are doing. This same crew also works Saturday night doing what is the
traditional CSO4 turn. There is a pool of guys that work this job so that no one
crew gets stuck regularly working 6 days; so everyone gets 5 days work, the
busier days use more than a 2 man crew; with an engine on each end it's much
quicker to not have one guy be changing back and forth between ends of the
train. (more than one qualified engineer)
CNZR typically picks up in Hartford in the late morning.
Any of the CSO jobs can interchange with CNZR in Hartford, but if there is time
CSO3 will do it, but at no regular time.
CSO3 will switch the branches, switch the yard, and work the Hartford market.
PanAm (the Big Gee) will usually work on Saturday going north, and like the
other guy mentioned, go south on a random basis.
Instead of listing the frequencies here, check out this link on the Radio
Reference web page:
<http://www.radioreference.com/apps/db/?aid=1533>

Re: Freight Traffic Through Hartford
One more thing to add, if you plan to go to Plainville and chase Pan Am from
there to New Britain and then to Hartford, it's best to get to Plainville around
9 in the morning (as previously mentioned, they usually go north on Saturdays,
though sometimes they will on a Friday). When they do go north, they could put
their train together and leave around 9 or 10 in the morning, or they could go
work AmeriGas or other industries and not leave Plainville until 11, 12, or
later.....no one really ever knows, you just have to see what happens.
Hope this helps,
Adam Twombly

Re: Freight Traffic Through Hartford
Ian:
Your post was extremely helpful, thank you. A couple other quick questions:
1) Any other scanner frequencies worth plugging into, CSOR Yard or dispatch type
frequencies?
2) The hotbox detector you list, does it call out trains in both directions?
3) Any idea of an online track chart for the mainline between Springfield and
New Haven with mileposts, etc. I looked a bit online for a Conrail Track Chart,
but didn't have any luck. I am not sure when Amtrak gained ownership of the
route.
Brooks

Re: Freight Traffic Through Hartford
􀂾 1) Any other scanner frequencies worth plugging into, CSOR Yard or dispatch
type frequencies?
RadioReference has all the CSO channels listed, and shows their usage.
One tip I can give you is to put the frequency for the EOT device in one of your
scanner channels. This will give you a heads up when a freight is fairly close.
> 2) The hotbox detector you list, does it call out trains in both directions?
Yes, they all to on Amtrak, P&W, and CSX if you are in Springfield.
> 3) Any idea of an online track chart for the mainline between Springfield and
New Haven with mileposts, etc. I looked a bit online for a Conrail Track Chart,
but didn't have any luck. I am not sure when Amtrak gained ownership of the
route.
There are several if you google "Springfield line" "track charts". What I find
interesting is that several web pages sell this information, which happens to be
copyrighted; they are setting themselves up for a law suit. Try to find an old
employee timetable at a flea market for cheaper than these web thieves are
selling them for.

Re: Freight Traffic Through Hartford
Thank you for the follow up info. What do you here on the EOT frequency, I am
familiar with hearing detectors call out trains on the old PRR mainline in
Pennsylvania, but am not sure about what type of info you get from an EOT.
My main purpose in this is hoping to shoot down the street with my 3-year old
soon to see a freight roll through the Hartford station/Bushnell Park area, only
about 1 mile from my house. We hear them blowing crossings frequently, which is
nice ; )
Thanks again.
Brooks

Re: Freight Traffic Through Hartford
457.9375 and 452.9375
The transmission is digital information and will just sound like a medium
pitched buzz for about a second. The engine and EOT radios "talk" to each other,
so you will hear both of them, but the engine one can be heard from farther
away.
To add to my comment, you indicated you were near Bushnell park.
The yard isn't very far from there (about a mile) so that "listen for the EOT"
trick may not work for you, because you may be able to hear them on trains that
are parked in the yard. You could give it a try to see if it works for you.

Not sure if this was already posted or not but NECR 417 is now on the Connecticut Southern. I saw it leading CSO-4 south today with SD40-2 3398 trailing. The 417 is an ex- Florida East Coast GP40-2 that has had the FEC marks patched and NECR marks added.

Brendan

RonM wrote:Not sure how to ask this... Could someone please explain the operations of Hartford yard versus East Hartford yard? Is it a capacity issue? Logistics? New Haven, PC/Conrail , CSOR ops appreciated. Thanks!!

Sorry I don't know, other than CSOR now has an engine house in Hartford. Prior to that, they stored the engines in East Hartford. Hartford also has much more of a "Yard" than East Hartford does... The East Hartford yard is only three tracks. Hartford is anywhere from 4-8 tracks.

- BWP

Looks like CSO has a new customer in East Hartford CT located at the beginning of the South Windsor Armory Branch. This Customer is where the Manchester midland splits from the Armory Branch.
Old ties and old track removed, new trench was dug out and now fresh ballast has been laid down for ties to go in. Two bunches of new ties was just unloaded. New switch will need to be put in place as well. First new customer I have seen in years, makes me so happy to see something new for a change. I do not know who or what the customer will be but I hope to find out in the future.

I saw 2 passenger cars on the CSOR as I drove through Hartford last Saturday on I91.

Are they on loan?

Sort of. They are going up to Bradley Airport at the National Guard yard at some point and will be part of Firefighters training on rail cars. They had these two Metro North cars set aside to help Firefighters prepare themselves on how to work these type of railcars in event of emergency. I saw rail personnel up at the guard unit looking over a switch in the yard yesterday, it may have something to do with the cars be moved to that location.

As for the new siding and customer being located on the Armory branch, I spoke to Patrick today who works for Hi Rail and they are installing this siding for the customer which is Napaoli and they are located in Southington CT. They use the Large Warehosue located between the Manchester Midland and the South Windsor Armory branch. The fees were getting high so they bought this vacant building and will restore it and now use this as there own warehouse. Better to own then Lease. This building is quite old and Patrick says that he was told the rail that was already there that they had to rip out was dating back to 1880ish....they are going to try and still use some of it as it was still in good shape after all these years. Patrick is installing the new ties one by one by handtruck and brut force. They have over two hundred new ties to put in he said, then the switch has to be installed. This will take a few months he said. Looks great though and I will again share pictures once I learn how to put on the sight.
Patrick also said that he believes a new customer (ABC) is coming on line just on the EHFD side across from CT River Bridge this spring. They will put in siding as well as the crossing wil be redone. I know the CT River Bridge is also going to be fixed as CSO recieved monies to upgrade that as well. Hopefully this will allow the bridge over CT River to last another 100 plus years. Lets hope that this great news keeps happening for CSO.

Larry wrote:Sort of. They are going up to Bradley Airport at the National Guard yard at some point and will be part of Firefighters training on rail cars. They had these two Metro North cars set aside to help Firefighters prepare themselves on how to work these type of railcars in event of emergency. I saw rail personnel up at the guard unit looking over a switch in the yard yesterday, it may have something to do with the cars be moved to that location.

CSO's shuttling the retired MNRR M2's from New Haven to West Springfield for CSX to haul out of the region for scrap. The cars usually do a stopover in Hartford Yard a few at a time before they hit CSX. Would make sense if they're doing public safety exercises to borrow a couple scrap units that are en route to meet their maker. Nobody's gonna care if the Guard has to smash a few windows on 'em.

There were two 89ft flatcars of brand new rail going south on CSO-4 today. Maybe these are for the new customers?

Also, those MN cars are going to Suffield yet they have been in the yard for at least a month now.

Brendan

The two cars in Hartford are 9015-9016 and are going to Bradley Field for use as a training facility for first responders. They are M6s and are still on their own wheels, while most of the scrap M2s are riding out on flatcars. The move up to Bradley was supposed to happen in December, but I think there was some issue with it being an Amtrak move and needing a CSO pilot, so crew scheduling hasn't worked out thus far. I'm assuming that they'll make their way up there eventually.

The rail lengths are going to a welded rail plant in New Haven.