Buffalo Drawbridges

FWIW, I spent an afternoon at the draw last summer and it is indeed a great spot. Yes, I was all "legal" and with RR employee so don't get bent out of shape. I would have been lost back there by myself because of all the dirt roads and no real landmarks. The funny thing was all the crews that day were covering thier faces like we were there to see THEM! The former NKP bridge (now open and out of service) was last owned/maintained by NW. Jeff

SST wrote:Consider the kid that got the ride on a train in the 50's. Despite the fact the kid got a ride, at some point, he crossed onto the property before the invitation. Was he tresspassing?

Whether the law was enforced or not, yes it was. So what?

Take that same kid today wanting to watch the railroads. The RR Police are called to shoo him away or worse. One kid gets a ride on a locomotive and the other kid gets a ride in the white SUV.

Yes the railroad is protecting its property and enforcing the law. Candy bars no longer cost a nickel, either.

If you want to debate trepassing policy, take it to the General Discussion. The topic of this thread is the Buffalo Drawbridges.

-otto-

TwoHands wrote:FWIW, I spent an afternoon at the draw last summer and it is indeed a great spot. Yes, I was all "legal" and with RR employee so don't get bent out of shape.

Where is there a "legal" spot to watch at CP-Draw? I am familiar with the aforementioned South Park and Smith St locations (both legal); if there are others, please let us know.

By the way, Smith St is a nice place to watch the trains go by, you just aren't too close to the trains. If photography of CP-Draw action is your interest, Smith St is best in the afternoon.

Foot of Smith St by the river is the best and closest 'legal' viewpoint.

...or try the top of the nearby water tower

It is virtually certain that the NKP bridge will never be used again. One or both of the abutments is said to have shifted making it virtually impossible to lower the bridge. I have been told that the NKP/N&W had to run a car or loco out onto the bridge to force it down into place. More than likely it has never been removed because of the red tape that would be involved in replacing a removed bridge as opposed to repairing an existing bridge. The bridge exists so the maze of permits required for a new bridge crossing of a navigable waterway will not apply if and when any work is done.

All of these areas mentioned are private property, there is no safe or legal entrance to any of these locations.

Have you though about using a canoe? Last I checked that creek was a navigable waterway so if you're having problems with fuzz on the land try an amphibious assault

One can put in at the Smith Street park

I have seen various dates for construction given but I can only say for sure that the bridges were built in the early 1900's. I would say somewhere between 1910 & 1920 would be good. The NKP Bridge was raised to the upright position in 1988. There are shots of trains crossing both of the bridges in the books: Niagara By Rail by Pete Jehrio, Nickle Plate Color Photography Bellview to Buffalo by Morning Sun Books, and there's an awesome shot of an ore boat passing through the draws in the ( Feb ?? ) 1976 Trains Magazine article on Buffalo by Devon Lawton along with N&W trains on the bridge. Back a few years ago before the entire world went paranoid, I used to sit on the torn up ROW by the NKP bridge and watch trains or boats from that location. The bridge itself seems to move around a lot when a breeze kicks up since it makes all sorts or creeking, moaning, and banging noises in the wind. Not sure if it's supposed to move that much, but it seemed to me to be rolling back a little, and then falling down with a slight bump onto the steel columns that they welded up there to keep it raised. That location is a great study in presence Vs. absense, lots of industrial ghosts hanging around from days long since past, but still a lot of activity if you show up at the right time.

If you look closely the NKP bridge is a totally different design. The bridge raises & lowers on a toothed wheel instead of the CP Draw design of a counterweight ballanced by a rack & pinion. The NKP bridge remains "stiff" as it raises and lowers as the structure does not have any moving parts other than the gearing & motor to move the roller assemblies. CP Draw is a more typical (for Buffalo) bascule bridge in that the entire bridge structure collapses on itself when it goes up. There was only one other rolling bridge like the NKP in town and that was the old South Michigan St. Bridge that was removed after the Skyway was built. That NKP bridge really is a relic. All the other moveable RR bridges in town (7 of them total) were either swing or bascule style like CP Draw.

I would hazzard a guess that CSX will have to open them pretty soon to allow for icebreaking operations on the Buffalo River. This winter has been cold, and the crick is pretty froze up right now. They will probably be sending either the firetug Cotter, or a Coast Guard Ice Breaker up there one of these days to keep South Buffalo from flooding once we get a thaw.

-B in B

This winter has been cold, and the crick is pretty froze up right now.

Well there's your solution to the access problem, just walk out there on the creek. Remember the buddy system.

Yeah, then your buddy can call 911 when you drown. Not on that crick, too dangerous. The NFTA Small Hoat Harbor?, maybe, at least there's no moving water under that ice, but the Buffalo River? I don't think so Tim, if you don't treat her with respect, she'll take your life.

-B in B

-PS: If you're a member, I posted lots of photos of Buffalo RR bridges here:

http://groups.yahoo.com/group/BridgeMod ... 7/pic/list

PPS: I noticed that the firetug had been out breaking ice on the 6th, but she went downriver from the fireboat slip and not upriver yet (towards the RR bridges). Maybe next week?

She went up the crick on Tuesday the 10th, past CSX and all the way up where the pilings for the old DL&W Drawbridge are above the Buckeye Oil Terminal on Elk St.

-B in B

Did they raise CP-Draw for it? Damn! I've never seen that bridge up in the air.

Yessir. Heading upriver, they have to raise Michigan St., Ohio St., CSX River Bridge, CSX CP Draw, and the South Park Ave. Bridge last. Back in the old days they would also have had to raise the NKP bridge & the DL&W Buffalo River Draw too. Boats operating on the Buffalo River have caused headaches for everyone from local street traffic to trains crews and dispatchers for 100 years now. See the November 1974 Trains magazine for a cool story about the bridge operator at NYC River Bridge and his encounter with the Firetug Edward M Cotter, a lake tanker, and the 20th Centruy Limited(s).

-B in B

I'm impressed that the bridge still works. I wonder what kind of maintenance is required to keep it in working order.