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  • Brightline Financial Performance

  • This is a forum for all operations, both current and planned, of Brightline, formerly All Aboard Florida and Virgin Trains USA:
    Websites: Current Brightline
    Virgin USA
    Virgin UK
It is currently Sat Apr 27, 2024 8:18 am

Brightline Financial Performance

This is a forum for all operations, both current and planned, of Brightline, formerly All Aboard Florida and Virgin Trains USA:
Websites: Current Brightline
Virgin USA
Virgin UK

Moderator: CRail

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Re: Brightline Turns an Operating Profit on Southern End of MCO-MIA route

 #1621213  by Gilbert B Norman
 
Mr. West Point, I also hold that ridership will be "the measurement that counts".

While there is certainly encouragement in that "faces and fannies" on the WP-MIA segment now open are definitely there (my personal observations as a paying passenger), will there be enough to cover the Debt Service (cash disbursed to both interest and, if required under the Indenture, principal payments)?

Reportedly, the bonds needed to "bankroll" the whole deal, were privately placed, have an 8% coupon rate, and are deemed Private Activity Bonds which exempts the interest earned from the Holder's Federal Gross Income. Somehow, I think the Holders are largely Florida residents, are well known in Tallahassee, and exempt from State Income Tax, as Florida does not have one (just a heavy, and regressive, tax on one's consumption, otherwise known as a Sales Tax).

While I can't be certain, I believe there is an implicit understanding that these Holders will be bailed out by the State and Brightline will become a ward of such. Strong ridership will certainly make any such action more "palatable".
Last edited by Gilbert B Norman on Mon May 01, 2023 6:55 am, edited 1 time in total.

Re: Brightline Turns an Operating Profit on Southern End of MCO-MIA route

 #1621254  by Erie-Lackawanna
 
west point wrote: ↑Sat Apr 29, 2023 9:21 pm What are the riser ships for Tri Rail? Is it down or staying the same? That figure would mean a lot!
Tri-Rail ridership continues to grow towards its pre-COVID levels.

Tri-Rail and Brightline cater to two vastly different markets. There is little chance that Brightline will be siphoning riders from Tri-Rail.

Brightline’s competition, and source of ridership, is I-95.

Jim

Re: Brightline Turns an Operating Profit on Southern End of MCO-MIA route

 #1621273  by Gilbert B Norman
 
Erie-Lackawanna wrote: ↑Sun Apr 30, 2023 7:11 pm Brightline’s competition, and source of ridership, is I-95.

Jim
In my case, with the two Brightline journeys I made during my February trip "down below", quite correct. Neither journey was a "joyride".

One journey to Miami from Boca, to attend an Ash Wednesday service at Trinity Cathedral and to have Lunch with my "girlfriend waitress" at the adjacent Marriott, and the other to West Palm to try out a highly recommended restaurant (as well as to walk around and "smell the $$$" along Rosemary Ave" - including sitting behind the wheel of a Lucid), I would have just driven on the 95 to either.

The alternative would have been to drive to Tri Rail Yamato Road station, park my auto in an unguarded lot (guarded by spycams for $5 at Brightline Boca station), then in the case of Miami have to make my way into town from the airport on (admittedly quite doable; did so on my January trip when I flew and did not rent) Metrorail and Metro Mover. To West Palm same insofar as Yamato Road goes.

It was simply a no brainer to give my business to Brightline.

Re: Brightline Turns an Operating Profit on Southern End of MCO-MIA route

 #1621320  by nomis
 
Yet, Brightline will have more than “indirect” competition from Tri-Rail once Iris opens and those double deckers start coming into Miami Central..

Re: Brightline Turns an Operating Profit on Southern End of MCO-MIA route

 #1621331  by JohnFromJersey
 
nomis wrote: ↑Mon May 01, 2023 8:43 pm Yet, Brightline will have more than “indirect” competition from Tri-Rail once Iris opens and those double deckers start coming into Miami Central..
Hasn't Iris been opened for a while?

Tri-Rail was supposed to go into Miami Central way back in 2017, but that didn't happen for some reason. They were supposed to start going in there come November 2022, but that didn't happen either. Now, they are saying Fall 2023. Not holding my breath.

Whenever Tri-Rail starts running, Brightline will have the Orlando route done and running by then, so if Tri-Rail siphons off some of the passengers from Miami-WPB, Brightline will probably offset any of those losses (and much more) with the Orlando-Miami service. In addition, Brightline is faster than Tri-Rail

What will be really interesting to see is if Tri-Rail does their desired Coastal Link route along FEC tracks. Now that would be serious competition for Brightline. I don't think FEC or Brightline would like that, especially the latter since that is another, slower occupier of tracks to deal with.

I believe hearing that Brightline was supposed to partner with the SFRTA to do the service themselves?

Re: Brightline Turns an Operating Profit on Southern End of MCO-MIA route

 #1621334  by Gilbert B Norman
 
Mr. John, having ridden both Tri Rail and Brightline "many times", their services are a comparative analogy to Corridor Amtrak and those around here who try to "beat Amtrak fares" between New London and Newark DE using the various regional agencies to get about (maybe even hitchhike the thirty some miles to Aberdeen and MARC) .

Those wishing to "do it on the cheap" will use Tri Rail and the "perfectly doable" Metro/Mover/Rail transfer to the Airport. I doubt if Tri-Rail serving (when or if that is to be) Miami Central will affect Brightline's business on the existing route "one iota".

Re: Brightline Turns an Operating Profit on Southern End of MCO-MIA route

 #1621392  by JohnFromJersey
 
Yeah, the fact that Brightline's service is probably the best of all the railroads in the US will probably allow them to beat back any competition from Tri-Rail, if that even becomes an issue. Tr-Rail is certainly cheaper but it does not seem as reliable nor as pleasant as Brightline, which has certainly made a name for itself these last few years.

Though I will say, Tri-Rail has some station stops in better areas than Brightline - for example, Tri-Rail directly services MIA, has a relatively close station to FLL, has some connections to the MetroRail and Amtrak, etc.

Re: Brightline Financial Performance

 #1635906  by Jeff Smith
 
Now, this is a subscription site, so I can't get any more details than the headline.

https://www.bizjournals.com/southflorid ... llion.html
Brightline reports $192 million net loss in 1st nine months of 2023
Now, the statement "net loss" implies everything in a Profit and Loss (P&L) statement. I'd be more curious as to what their "EBITDA" is. What's that you ask? As Mssr. Norman could also advise, that's "Earnings Before Income Taxes Depreciation and Amortization". That's basically "operating profit".

I'd also note that this includes less than a month of MCO operations.

Re: Brightline Financial Performance

 #1636378  by BandA
 
$192M loss on $44M revenue isn't good, even if some of that is one-time expenses related to Orlando and expansion. Ominously they have $1.5B in bonds due 2024-2027 that they want to refinance, and as we know interest rates are much higher now even for tax-exempt bonds.

Re: Brightline Financial Performance

 #1636379  by BandA
 
I think we will know a lot more in 6 mo or a year. Covid delayed things. Do we know what Brightline's load factor was for 2023?

I assume the money for the LA-Vega$ project is completely separate.

Re: Brightline Financial Performance

 #1636480  by Jeff Smith
 
Thought I'd throw this in here for those of you who are convinced this is a real-estate venture: CommercialObserver.com
Developers Clamor to Build Along South Florida’s Passenger Rail Lines

South Florida’s intercity passenger train service was barely two years old when the COVID-19 pandemic suspended operations for 20 months. That pause in Brightline service hasn’t derailed developers determined to build projects near train stations.

“We’ve sold several sites that are within a block or two of the Brightline station in Fort Lauderdale that are going to become multifamily developments,” said Jaime Sturgis, founder and CEO of Fort Lauderdale-based real estate brokerage Native Realty. “We’re still seeing a lot of demand to be close to a Brightline station. Fort Lauderdale is a great example of that.”
...

Re: Brightline Financial Performance

 #1636709  by Jeff Smith
 
In an article discussing the extension to Tampa, there was an interesting aside: TampBay.com
...
The company posted a net loss of $192.2 million in the first nine months of last year, according to a quarterly statement released in late December. Brightline intends to refinance all the debt it incurred while building its route between Miami and Orlando. It also may seek to sell or spin off all or part of the development rights for the Orlando-Tampa leg, according to the financial statement.
...

Re: Brightline Financial Performance

 #1636724  by Gilbert B Norman
 
As I've noted around here, Sgt. Smith, I think Florida is quite pro-passenger rail - so long as it isn't Amtrak.

I would not rule out (maybe I won't be around to see it) that a rail passenger agency serving "Tampa Bay" will develop. Brightline could have in mind to wait to see what lines such an agency will use (or build from scratch) and then approach that agency for trackage into I would guess into Tampa Union Station.
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