Amtrak/LIRR Moynihan Train Hall

Madison square Garden and the dolans have backed out of the new Moynihan Staion deal, and that might be the end of it.

Its possible this is just a bargaining ploy by Dolan, we will have to wait and see.
Here is a link to the daily news on the subject, reported in todays (3/28/08) Paper.
http://www.nydailynews.com/ny_local/200 ... penn_.html

IMHO those freeloaders should be thrown out.

They haven't paid property taxes since the Kotch Administration.. Its (Garden) a waste of valuable real estate that could be used for a real transportation hub over the actual station.

Not to mention, the garden is also a pre-fab piece of garbage that is horribly outdated by most modern venues...

de402 wrote:IMHO those freeloaders should be thrown out.

They haven't paid property taxes since the Kotch Administration.. Its (Garden) a waste of valuable real estate that could be used for a real transportation hub over the actual station.

Not to mention, the garden is also a pre-fab piece of garbage that is horribly outdated by most modern venues...

Yes, but it's also one of the most famous arenas in the country, if not the most famous one. Wrigley Field in Chicago is the same, but they won't tear it down any time soon because of the lore surrounding it.

It's unfortunate that close to a billion dollars have already been spent on this fiasco. If it's dead, hopefully it will be killed for good. Let private interests develop this, and put what amounts to the nation's most valuable land back on the tax rolls.

Forcing the taxpayer to pay for this is nothing short of a crime.

Pennsylvania Station was a great looking building. Madison Square Garden is hideous. It's probably the ugliest building I've ever seen. That thing should be torn down as fast as possible. And the fact that they don't pay taxes, and are fighting moynihan station is ridiculous.

Another reason in the a long list of why I dislike Cablevison and the Dolan crew. I am hoping that Bloomberg can force MSG to pay property taxes.

Renovate?!?!?!

Speaking as a rail fan and a Knicks fan... please move and tear down the current MSG. It has some of the worst sightlines of any arena.

Will it happen? Doubt it unless we can get Dolan out of there. He seems completely incompetent.

I hate the Dolans. I hate Cablevision. I hate MSG. I love the Rangers and the Knicks. I hate the MSG organization for making this whole project about them instead of trying to be a leader and bring back a great temple to railroading and try to give back a little of what was taken away forty years ago.

-otto-

I remember seeing a cartoon in the New Yorker a while back. Two obviously successful business types in a tastefully opulent room talking over drinks. "Let's tear down Pennsylvania Station and put up something really crappy."

too bad that was all too real.

I mean, we're(the city) even offering to move the garden into a beautiful romanesque building, and they're refusing, cause they prefer their hideous 60's pre-fab circle.

Hebrewman9 wrote:

de402 wrote:IMHO those freeloaders should be thrown out.

but it's also one of the most famous arenas in the country, if not the most famous one. Wrigley Field in Chicago is the same, but they won't tear it down any time soon because of the lore surrounding it.

I won't stop them from tearing down Yankee Stadium.... All in the name of progress????

OK Here we go again - Hopefully this time around something might come out of it..

Schumer Seeks Federal Stimulus Funds to Jump-Start Moynihan Transit Project
State officials selected two developers nearly four years ago for a grand project to transform the James A. Farley Post Office into a transit hub that would serve as an annex to Pennsylvania Station, the country’s busiest train station. Despite widespread support, the project has languished because of a lack of financing, political inertia, squabbles with transportation agencies and the developers’ ambitions.

Now, Senator Charles E. Schumer is calling for the injection of $100 million in federal stimulus funds to convert the post office building, expand the city’s transportation infrastructure and employ thousands of workers. Mr. Schumer also renewed his call for the Port Authority of New York and New Jersey to take charge of the project and asked them to invest $1 billion.

Mr. Schumer said Amtrak should move to the Farley building from Penn Station; the latest proposal had called for relocating New Jersey Transit and the Long Island Rail Road there.

Either move would help relieve congestion at Penn Station, where 550,000 passengers a day make their way through cramped and confusing corridors. Amtrak, which operates the high-speed Acela trains in the Northeast, accounts for 62 percent of the combined air and rail market between New York and Washington.

“This is just what was envisioned by the stimulus: shovel-ready projects that generate a lot of jobs,” Mr. Schumer said in an interview on Sunday. “We want Amtrak to play the major role in the station. There is new funding that could help them do that. The focus is now on the station, letting private development follow rather than the other way around.”

Mr. Schumer’s proposal recognizes the inability of private developers in the current economic environment to advance the six office towers they had wanted to build as part of the train station project. At the same time, Mr. Schumer is trying to navigate roiling fiscal waters in which city, state and Port Authority officials are facing declining revenues and widening budget gaps.

“I think it’s a terrific idea,” said Robert Yaro, president of the Regional Plan Association, a nonprofit planning group. “There are a whole set of transportation investments that need to be made at the station. Obviously the real estate market will be flat for a while. But is $100 million enough to get the ball rolling? I don’t know.”

The project is named after Senator Daniel Patrick Moynihan, who first suggested in the 1990s using the Farley building to create a grand transit entrance to New York, something he said had been missing since the demolition of the above-ground Penn Station in 1968.

The Bloomberg administration and Gov. David A. Paterson seemed to endorse Mr. Schumer’s proposal.

“A redeveloped Penn Station would have enormous benefits for the entire region and would absolutely be a terrific use of federal transportation funds,” said Andrew Brent, a spokesman for Mayor Michael R. Bloomberg.

To avoid conflicts with the state and the city, Mr. Schumer did not call for the $100 million to come out of New York’s $21 billion portion of the federal stimulus package. Instead, he took aim at the $8 billion set aside for high-speed rail service and $1.3 billion set aside for Amtrak.

Mr. Schumer said that the state’s Congressional delegation, as well as Mayor Bloomberg and Governor Paterson, should pursue that money.

But he also called on the Port Authority to contribute at least $1 billion. The authority, which had been eager to gain control of the Moynihan project, has seen a sharp drop in revenues from tolls on its bridge and tunnel crossings and a rise in the cost of rebuilding the World Trade Center.

“The senator’s effort to get Moynihan started is consistent with the port’s goal of developing a financially viable project,” said Christopher O. Ward, executive director of the authority. “The key is to work with Amtrak on an important transportation project for the entire region. Finding the necessary funding is our No. 1 priority.”

The state has spent $230 million buying the blocklong Farley building, which sits across Eighth Avenue from Penn Station and Madison Square Garden.

Amtrak, which has endured budget cuts for years, is also eager to shore up its network, but it has been concerned about absorbing the estimated $15 million annual cost to operate at the Farley building. To offset those concerns, Mr. Schumer suggested that rent from new retailers at a new transit hub in the Farley building could go to Amtrak.

The developers involved in the Moynihan project — Stephen M. Ross, chief executive of Related Companies, and Steven Roth, chairman of Vornado Realty Trust — also seemed to back the Schumer proposal.

“I agree with this 100 percent,” Mr. Ross said. “This kind of transit project is a much greater stimulus than anything else that could be done in the city.”

In 2005, the developers won a bidding contest to create a train annex at the Farley and to develop a nearby office tower. But the project quickly swelled, with the developers proposing a $14 billion development, which involved demolishing Madison Square Garden to make way for a new train station and a half-dozen office towers, while erecting a new Garden inside the Farley building.

That project foundered because of its size and complexity, and Governor Paterson’s plan to unveil a new proposal focusing on transportation improvements fell by the wayside amid negotiations over the state budget.

http://www.nytimes.com/2009/03/02/nyreg ... nihan.html

We shall see. I hope for the best but am expecting nothing.

I have to think asking this to come out of the money for 'high speed rail' is a non-starter. A nice try, but a non-starter. All the while having NY still pay nothing for it (or at least nothing out of their stimulus money, I'm not sure if there's a difference there). I'm glad to see this back in the news, but I'm skeptical.

NY is investing a lot in their subways & MTA-run rails, that I gladly grant (SAS, ESA, 7-extension), but between contributing nothing for ARC and now asking the high-speed funds & Amtrak to fund this project too, they're trying to get a lot of Amtrak/NEC improvements on someone else's dimes. At least that's how it reads to me.

Would Moynihan Station provide any operational benefits? Or do they really want other people (Amtrak, PA) to spend billions for a prettier station & less passenger crowding?

No way should HSR funds be used on anything but improving rail infrastructure directly related to train performance and reliability.