Amtrak Downeaster Discussion Thread

[BostonUrbEx]

I literally addressed that just three posts up. The platform for Tracks 9 and 10 will in fact be shortened. The North Bank Pedestrian Bridge's supports are wide enough apart for a six-track throat, but the Tower A building has to come down (it is about to fall down anyway).

[RenegadeMonster]

So they would have to build the new draw on the east side? Not on the west side where they were before?

Wish we could just take a cut out of that building and run trains through it. Wonder if that is even a possibility from the engineering side. Not that they would ever actually do it.

[BostonUrbEx]

No, the draws will be replaced in the same location they are now so that the centerline between draw spans will [roughly] be the same as it is now. In order to pull off a replacement in the same location, this means that for much of the project, half of BON's capacity will be unavailable. It is likely that Fitchburg Route trains will terminate at Porter and Western Route trains at either Malden or Oak Grove. That may not be enough schedule trimming though, so a handful of Eastern Route trains will maybe terminate at Chelsea to drump everyone on SL3, but that is obviously not the greatest option. The Downeaster may have to be pulled out of the station to layover elsewhere if it continues making the full run into Boston during this project.

[gokeefe]

I think there is plenty of reason to believe that in the future the former hospital building might come down if the space is needed for additional tracks. Might see something built over it.

[johnpbarlow]

If the North - South Rail Link ever comes to pass, would BON really need this drawbridge and platform expansion given two or four NRSL tracks would serve BON with underground platforms? I know NSRL project happening is a big "if"...

I read at the North South Rail Link advocacy web site http://www.northsouthraillink.org/capacity/ the following quote:

Rather than addressing the root cause of this gross inefficiency, the Commonwealth is currently planning to add 7 additional stub-end tracks at South Station and 2 more at North Station, at a staggering cost of about $2 Billion. Leaving aside the cost, the addition of surface tracks simply compounds the inefficiency of the stub-end operations and adds precious little capacity for future growth. Rather than solving the underlying problem, this approach simply compounds it.

[Rockingham Racer]

Changing the topic. Besides Southampton in Boston, where can a consist be turned between Brunswick and Boston? In a pinch, there's still a wye at Lowell Jct. the last time I was there [last year].

[RenegadeMonster]

Doesn't BET have the ability to turn a consist? In a real pinch I'm sure they could turn something there.

[Trinnau]

Changing the topic. Besides Southampton in Boston, where can a consist be turned between Brunswick and Boston? In a pinch, there's still a wye at Lowell Jct. the last time I was there [last year].

The Grand Junction makes a Wye with the Fitchburg and East/West Routes (Tower A-Swift-FX) at BET
There is also a Wye off FX between the old Yard 10 and Yard 21 leads
Lowell Jct wye (one leg typically out-of-service)
Wilmington-Lowell-Lowell Jct will turn a train (just a touch off the route but would work in a pinch)
Rigby Yard has a wye on the west end (although last I knew one leg was a transload)
Portland Yard 8 wye (which is where they turned things before moving to Brunswick)

[BostonUrbEx]

If the North - South Rail Link ever comes to pass, would BON really need this drawbridge and platform expansion

No. But the state won't commit to NSRL and has committed to this BON expansion, so MassDOT/MBTA has to work with what it's got.

[east point]

We believe that the north south rail link is way to expensive for its benefits ! If only 5 - 10 % of passengers would want to go to the far station that does not meet a smell test. Better spend the $10B on other Boston area improvements. Say 10B after the cost of the big did was even higher.

[BandA]

If North Station is constrained during the draw replacement, could they run the Downeaster over the Grand Junction? From what I've read here there is awkwardness* around Boston Engine Terminal, perhaps that can be fixed as part of this project, and there is the reverse move at Beacon Park and the only-connected-to-track-1 problem.

So, imagine stops at Kendall Square, Boston Landing where they reverse ends, Back Bay, South Station with luggage transfer across platform to Acela.

* = Looks like the Lowell Line crosses over the tracks it needs to connect with just west of the BET. In fact it looks like Lowell Line trains have to access the BET from the east only.

[gokeefe]

If only 5 - 10 % of passengers would want to go to the far station that does not meet a smell test.

Although this certainly isn't the thread for it I think it's worth clarifying that the major benefit of NRSL is the enormous savings in equipment acquisition costs, maintenance and crew hours. Those figures run in to Billions of dollars in a pretty short timescale.

Having worked, and recently at that, with some very senior figures in the MBTA on questions regarding North Station utilization I feel confident that efficiency is the primary focus of capital spending.

[Backshophoss]

There's still too much "shell shock" over the cost of the "Big Dig" that remains as a real bad Dream to attempt any kind of NSRL construction,
Look on how that "bad dream" affected the GLX construction startup,and gets mention when any kind of transit construction is proposed,
as the reuse of Beacon Park yard and Worcester line/Mass Pike reconstruction,Widett yard proposal,etc.......

For now,if the "best bet" is to improve Boston North Station and replace the Drawbridges,THEN DO IT!
Stop remembering the bad dream of the Big Dig. It's time to move on!

[FatNoah]

It is likely that Fitchburg Route trains will terminate at Porter and Western Route trains at either Malden or Oak Grove.

I wish I could go back in time and un-read this. As a daily Orange Line Commuter from Wellington, I have no time flexibility due to school drop-off responsibility and frequently encounter trains too full to even get on or that are so crowded each station stop takes > 1 minute just to get people off or on. Adding CR passengers to this would be a total nightmare.

[Hux]

There's still too much "shell shock" over the cost of the "Big Dig" that remains as a real bad Dream to attempt any kind of NSRL construction,
Look on how that "bad dream" affected the GLX construction startup,and gets mention when any kind of transit construction is proposed,
as the reuse of Beacon Park yard and Worcester line/Mass Pike reconstruction,Widett yard proposal,etc.......

For now,if the "best bet" is to improve Boston North Station and replace the Drawbridges,THEN DO IT!
Stop remembering the bad dream of the Big Dig. It's time to move on!

The answer to this issue is street running through the greenway. They should have created a street car loop 30 years ago, but a straight shot of rail from North to South would get the job done at bargain basement prices.