Amtrak Downeaster Discussion Thread

[Dick H]

Leaf season is here. The cabbages on the DE have always been problemantic with flat
wheels, especially during the leaf season. I don't think they do any wheel work at
Portland. The cabbages and coaches will be making a trip to Southhampton St.
for that work...

[p42thedowneaster]

I wonder if switching over to disc brakes would help reduce flat spots on the cabbages? It would seem like any wheel imperfections or minor flat spots would be more likely to lock up an axle when using tread-type brakes than it would with discs.

[Cowford]

Are they not sufficiently ballasted?

[abesier]

Cowford wrote:

NNEPRA has posted a schedule change, effective Oct 15. Notable: The BRU-FRE shuttle has been eliminated, as have the morning and evening POR-BRU shuttles... will run strictly as deadheads, I suppose?

Disappointed that NNEPRA hasn't acted to restore the 50% senior discount for same day round trips between BRK/FRE and BON. Residents of Thornton Oaks in Brunswick who attended a meeting with Natalie Allen, NNEPRA Marketing Director last spring, were led to believe this was in the works when she responded that NNEPRA intended to swap 685/695's schedule with 687/697.

[BM6569]

"Downeaster ridership numbers so good more roundtrips may be added"

http://www.fosters.com/apps/pbcs.dll/ar ... -1/fosnews" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

How close do you think they are to adding additional roundtrips? Would increased ridership move the process along despite the delays in construction to the facility in Brunswick?

[Arlington]

"Downeaster ridership numbers so good more roundtrips may be added"
http://www.fosters.com/apps/pbcs.dll/ar ... -1/fosnews" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
How close do you think they are to adding additional roundtrips? Would increased ridership move the process along despite the delays in construction to the facility in Brunswick?

I think they could be close only if they perfectly time one more round trip to capture latent rush-hour demand into or out of BON--taking a load off the day's only regularly sold out trains. Otherwise, I don't see how you'd justify a 20% increase in service (from 5x to 6x daily) based on a 3.4% increase in riders. The next train has to be a well-timed schedule, not just squeezing utilization runs out of the current 3 trainsets.

And 7x is impossible, as I understand it, because of the need for signal/control upgrades that PanAm doesn't want to do.

[Dick H]

Two of the three trainsets were reportedly running locos on both ends yesterday.
Those fallen leaves are likely doing a number on those cabbages (flat wheels).

The weekend "service interruptions" for the Shawsheen River Bridge project
will hit the Downeaster again the weekend of October 26-27th. They will again
be offering the $5.00 introductory fare for travel north of Haverhill. One source
said this is the last interruption for that project. Let's hope so.

[NH2060]

And 7x is impossible, as I understand it, because of the need for signal/control upgrades that PanAm doesn't want to do.

That was my understanding too unless they were able to get a waiver from the FRA. However once ridership and train lengths exhaust current scheduling and consist arrangements and extra service is warranted would Pam Am necessarily have to foot the bill on their own for improvements? Or is it that they would just rather not have to install any PTC upgrades at all even if they got paid top dollar?

On another note from reading the article it seems that while additional round trips (other than an additional RT for commuters, etc.) won't happen for awhile it seems that extra coaches (at least 1 extra per train?) are definitely warranted here. Would it result it more fuel costs? Sure, but it would open up more seats for passengers with monthlies, etc. but also more of those precious reserved seats (which from what I understand seem to go like hotcakes often enough ).

[MEC407]

The weekend "service interruptions" for the Shawsheen River Bridge project
will hit the Downeaster again the weekend of October 26-27th. They will again
be offering the $5.00 introductory fare for travel north of Haverhill. One source
said this is the last interruption for that project. Let's hope so.

I was thinking about taking advantage of that $5 fare again, but considering how dead Haverhill was the last time I went, I can only imagine it would be even deader now. The only other interesting option would be to take the train to Freeport or Brunswick, but I'd be stuck there for seven hours... and as much as I enjoy both towns, I have no idea what the heck I'd do for seven hours. Eat, see a movie, do some shopping... that might fill up four hours but I don't think I could stretch it out enough to fill up seven.

Great option for MA/NH folks who want to stay overnight in Freeport or Brunswick, though.

[jbvb]

The Tap in Haverhill has re-opened after their sprinkler incident. The Andover Shawsheen River bridge should be up to 60 MPH soon, if not already, as the straight route over the westerly new span was put into service last Friday. I expect the upcoming outage is for the Lowell Jct. bridge, which will remove another speed restriction. But none of the new double track will be usable until they rebuild the Andover & Essex St. grade crossings; possibly one of those will get done during this track possession.

[trainviews]

The Amtrak press release on the ridership record (http://www.amtrak.com/ccurl/730/658/FY1 ... 13-122.pdf) also posts the top five station ridership in each state, and that gives us the first numbers on the Brunswick extension. Brunswick has 30.187 on and offs in FY 2013. Freeport is not on the list of the five busiest Maine stations and must have had less than Old Orchard Beach at number five with 17.776.

This gives a ridership of no more than about 45.000 for the Downeasters north of Portland - or about 30 passengers per train, not counting the nearly unused shuttles between Brunswick and Freeport.

I honestly don't find that number too impressive. The extension is probably too short and Brunswick too small a terminus to generate a substantial amount of passengers. If it has to really make sense, then it should be only a step towards a further extension towards Augusta/Bangor.

[BM6569]

Wasn't the initial hope for Brunswick service, 30 passengers?

If ridership at OOB continues to improve, this would seem to support the town's case to make it a year round station stop. How many months is the station open each year?

[Cowford]

"This gives a ridership of no more than about 45.000 for the Downeasters north of Portland"

What's left to interpretation is what NNEPRA meant in saying in this: "The expanded service is expected to add 36,000 more passengers each year." They have missed that target.* Note that Portland's ridership is down 25,000, which as has been discussed, indicates that over 50% of the "new" ridership is actually trip extensions, with the service generating only 20,000 new passengers. Looks like they underestimated trip extensions and overestimated organic growth.

*In fairness to NNEPRA, it would be better said that they are on track to miss the target; ridership reported only provide 11 months of data, given the service began on Nov 1 2012.

October's numbers will be most interesting, given the new record-keeping on multi-ride pax.

[Station Aficionado]

The Amtrak press release on the ridership record (http://www.amtrak.com/ccurl/730/658/FY1 ... 13-122.pdf) also posts the top five station ridership in each state, and that gives us the first numbers on the Brunswick extension. Brunswick has 30.187 on and offs in FY 2013. Freeport is not on the list of the five busiest Maine stations and must have had less than Old Orchard Beach at number five with 17.776.

This gives a ridership of no more than about 45.000 for the Downeasters north of Portland - or about 30 passengers per train, not counting the nearly unused shuttles between Brunswick and Freeport.

I honestly don't find that number too impressive. The extension is probably too short and Brunswick too small a terminus to generate a substantial amount of passengers. If it has to really make sense, then it should be only a step towards a further extension towards Augusta/Bangor.

There are only six stops in Maine (with Freeport being the sixth). Freeport ridership can be calculated by subtracting the ridership of the five stations listed by Amtrak (Portland, Wells, Saco, Brunswick and Old Orchard Beach) from the total ridership for the state. By my calculation, Freeport's ridership was 15,250.

[trainviews]

There are only six stops in Maine (with Freeport being the sixth). Freeport ridership can be calculated by subtracting the ridership of the five stations listed by Amtrak (Portland, Wells, Saco, Brunswick and Old Orchard Beach) from the total ridership for the state. By my calculation, Freeport's ridership was 15,250.

Thanks, I didn't think of that.

I also forgot to factor in that the Brunswick extension only ran for 11 of the 12 months last year. On the other hand I purposefully disregarded the fact that passengers between Freeport and Brunswick will be counted twice, when you use the station numbers. But in all I don't think any of this changes the equation or the point much.

To Cowford I have to say though that I think you're jumping to conclusions too easily. It can't automatically be assumed that the lost passengers at Portland are people who are now taking the train from Freeport/Brunswick. This is especially true as trackwork has kept the Downeaster on a less attractive schedule for much of the year. The drop in ridership from Portland very likely is at least partly due to pendlers dropping the train because they have found the temporary schedule less attractive.

And even to the extent that some of the ridership on the extension is simply "moved" passengers who used to take the train from Portland, this is actually not a bad thing. It means that those people now has a better/closer/more convenient station to board from and that they don't add to city traffic in Portland.

The question I was raising was just wether there really are enough of them to justify the cost of the extension?