30th to 69th without using El

No matter where you are, there are wierd people. In fact, on the road, you have so many rude people. The stations in N. Philly and north of the tunnel on the ex-Reading, be CAREFUL. N. Broad is one of them as well as Alleghany. What those kids did were stupid. If I were in your shoes, I would have definately done self defense the minute they attacked me. That stuff is totally wrong. I have very little patience for that type of behavior. We live in a different world. Even in NYC, I see some odd folks. Even though they don't mean harm, their body language can be a bit wierd.

Unfortunatly this has been going on for years. Kids sucker punching and then running Why didnt you hit the alarm on the train and notify the operator transit police were needed? Transit police are at 69th street 24/7 as it is a division of SPD and will respond along with Millbourne police and Upper Darby PD.

Just an ex transit cop's thoughts.

Lucius Kwok wrote:About the only response I can think of is constant police presence and security cameras everywhere. When I took the train from Temple U in the evenings, I usually noticed a police officer on the platform or in the booth at street level.

The question is, though, were they Temple University cops or SEPTA cops? Unless there's a train v. trespasser incident, you hardly ever see SEPTA police outside of the Center City stations on the RRD side.

The one time that I saw any SEPTA cops on the RRD on a regular basis was about 2 years ago, when there was an officer (sometimes, if we were lucky, 2) on board the #591 (last R5 to Thorndale) between Center City and Villanova to deal with drunken Villanova students returning from the city. It was certainly effective while it lasted. Other than that, you're better off calling 911 and having the township or borough cops show up.

From time to time, I'd see Downingtown PD at the station during the evening peak hour. The police station is two blocks west of the train station, which certainly helps.

jsc wrote:SEPTA really ought to take this seriously and patrol the heck out of the system until these kids are caught but I haven't heard anything from SEPTA indicating that they are doing anything at all. The perception becomes just another case of SEPTA treating the passengers as though they are simply a hinderance.

(Sorry for the long rant, but...)

That's assuming you can find a SEPTA cop at all outside of the MFL, BSL, and at the Center City RRD stations. In the past, there used to be a SEPTA K-9 cop occasionally stationed at Chester TC, but he hasn't been deployed there in at least a year or two. And this was before the terminal was rebuilt.

AFA Norristown TC goes, forget it. I remember passing through NTC and seeing a SEPTA "Security Agent" patrol occasionally, but I think they disbanded that unit. Over the past several years, I think I've only seen SEPTA Police at NTC once. That's it. Norristown PD passes by, but I don't think I've ever seen them at NTC proper (that borough has it's own set of problems that don't need to be discussed here).

The only other time you may see SEPTA Police outside of Center City stations on the RRD would be during a "Safety Blitz" at key RRD stations. I don't think they've done any of those in a long time, not since "Fearless Leader" took over.

That said, SEPTA Police haven't exactly been doing a great job patrolling the system in recent years. In February, there was a mugging near Fern Rock.

The mother of the victim spoke to NBC 10:

The victim's mother believes the attack could have been stopped if police were patrolling the area.

"I'm so upset that this was a pattern we could have prevented from happening had there been plainclothed police officers in the area," said Tanya Haynes.

SEPTA officials said there used to be several plainclothed police officers patrolling the area, but last year those officers were put back into uniform and back on the street.

Police said a 50-year-old man was attacked in the same area (the week of February 7), apparently by the same group of teens.

In December, SEPTA's "Minister of Mis-Information" Richard Maloney told NBC 10:

"We have a pickpocket patrol at the SEPTA Police Department, and they're undercover police, and they make arrests."

The month before, I heard from a SEPTA insider that Transit Police discontinued the plainclothes details allegedly because an officer involved in a racial discrimination lawsuit identified himself as an undercover officer (though his face was obscured) in an NBC 10 interview.

Contrast that with NJ Transit Police and how vigilant those officers are. I was returning from Wildwood to Philly and had a layover in Atlantic City to connect with the 551 bus (this was overnight so the ACRL was not running). I took a quick nap before the next bus left. It couldn't have been more than 15 minutes before an NJT cop demanded to see my ticket (which I showed him); he then told me that the bus was about to leave. Also, I've seen NJT cops escort - and sometimes arrest - vagrants who were washing and/or shaving in the restrooms at Trenton station. If the same thing happened at Suburban Station or Market East, SEPTA Police simply shrug it off.

Suffice to say that I have no confidence in SEPTA's Transit Police...

since this topic has evolved more into a "SEPTA Security Sucks" thread, I'll throw my 2 cents in....

I find the security in general appaling, really enough to make decent people not use the system. I can't tell you how many times I've used the restroom at Market East, only to find a homeless person bathing in there. Its really bad. You basically have to hold your breath before you go in the restroom and hope you took a deep enough breath to last while you're in there. Now if SEPTA can't keep a restroom at a major station decent, how do you think the rest of the system is? And the bathroom is the good part. Try waiting for a train there past 10pm. I witnessed another homeless person disrobe and fight his imaginary friend in Market East, all while the station master sat in his office and read the paper!! C'mon now, is this the best we can do?

Most of us here have our pet dreams of expanding and restoring service on fallen lines throughout the system, but if we can't keep it clean and decent for ordinary people, we're never going to get anywhere. And if Bush has his way with Am-stash, thats only going to mean that SEPTA will have to share already hard to get dollars with Am-cra*. There is no more light at the end of the tunnel because SEPTA just boarded it up and stickered it with a "Out of Service" sign.

Septa does not own the bathroom at Market East Station. Its gallery property and its the responsibility of the gallery security to kep the vagrants out. Unfortunatly when they took their firearms away they were not left with the best.

Septa's security unit is still around. They do alot of "money train" details and alot of static posts within the city. Alot of the unit has been disbanded and there was talk of contractors coming into taking their place.

As far as SEPTA police not having plain clothes unit being disbanded. When I left SPD about a year ago it was still around but I wouldnt be suprised if they disbanded the unit. Alot of folks think SEPTA has a large police force and unfortunatly there are less than 350 septa cops working 24/7 to cover the whole system. Yes NTC and CTC both had units but both were cut back because its the bosses who want the presenece at the major terminal. If it were up to the cops we would be riding the trains and out working the system. Blame the administration especially after Faye came in and she doesnt like the police force one bit.

If SEPTA doesen't own the bathroom at ME, why do they dictate when it gets locked?

The last late night I was there, someone thought a person was locked in the bathroom, and the SEPTA cops showed up and the bathroom was unlocked by the stationmaster who had the key!

The bathroom is in their station---they should be aware of what's going on in there. I'm guessing the station master and ticket agents have their own "private" restroom. Maybe if they used the same one everyone else did they would be in alot better shape, like the 5 start ammenities at 1234.

Maybe SEPTA could do what Home Depot in S.Philly does---contract out patroling to the Philly cops. Its kind of a mess now where if you need help and you call 911 they try and push it off as SEPTA's problem, even though their cops are no where to be found.

Just another question---or two---why doesen't SEPTA expand its non-working emergency call box system to include the regional rail? And is SEPTA ever going to get that new system working (they're the ones that are covered up on the MFL/BSL stations. I forget how much they spent on that but its deplorable like everything else they do that the money was spent and the intended benefit never came to fruition.

Well, I have used the BSS and I never have had any serious problems. But I have never seen cops either...

Bensalem SEPTA rider wrote:Well, I have used the BSS and I never have had any serious problems. But I have never seen cops either...

I see them more often than I see Philadelphia police, frankly, and I live in Philadelphia! The North Philadelphia BSS station seems well patrolled (maybe that's because it's the zone 6 headquarters )

Just to throw in my observation, I often see the transit police at NTC, or at least their vehicles. They're usually parked either next to the Dekalb St. station building, or on the sidewalk along Lafayette St near where the buses leave.

SEPTA has a lease from the owners of the gallery but the bathroom is not owned by SEPTA. The only reason its dictated about the closing is because they do now want homeless congragting in their all night or even in the station itself.

Second septa law enforcement can not be contracted out is because Philadelphia police officers DO NOT HAVE JURISDICTION OUTSIDE OF THE CITY. SEPTA and Iam sure you the taxpayer or the riding public is not willing to pay anywhere from $25-50/hr just to have city police patrol the system. This was brought up during the Timoney era when he wanted to merge the city housing police and SEPTA police into the city police force. When you dial 9-1-1 it does not go to septa police. It goes to a city dispatcher at the roundhouse who then transfers the call to SEPTA dispatch. Its been a problem for years with the reundency of having 2 police units patrolling the transit system. I should know Ive worked for both the city and transit police forces.

You have to remember about SEPTA. Nothing makes sense. At least when I left the city and joined SEPTA pd, we were told that unless its a last mesure we dont arrest. We are to be seen and not heard. We should let the city police force handle the calls. SEPTA's radio system is one of the worst in the nation. You wouldnt be suprised at how many failures we have had in the tunnels when chasing after someone. Just remember.. SEPTA is just another bureaucratic nightmare setup by our fine politicians.

Usafcop580 wrote:You have to remember about SEPTA. Nothing makes sense. At least when I left the city and joined SEPTA pd, we were told that unless its a last mesure we dont arrest. We are to be seen and not heard. We should let the city police force handle the calls. SEPTA's radio system is one of the worst in the nation. You wouldnt be suprised at how many failures we have had in the tunnels when chasing after someone. Just remember.. SEPTA is just another bureaucratic nightmare setup by our fine politicians.

They should make a sitcom about Philly...

But seriously, why the heck is Fye Moore around? She has got to be the worst person to run a system EVER! Maybe SEPTA really is on a suicide mission...

jfrey40535 wrote:Why doesen't SEPTA expand its non-working emergency call box system to include the regional rail?

I would think this would have been included in the communications improvements that have been made at various stations--stuff like the dot matrix displays showing when the next train is expected to arrive. However, the "Smart Stations" project in the current capital budget applies only to subway and el stations, and not to RRD.

And is SEPTA ever going to get that new system working (they're the ones that are covered up on the MFL/BSL stations. I forget how much they spent on that but its deplorable like everything else they do that the money was spent and the intended benefit never came to fruition.

My question is whether or not somebody is going to investigate this project and how and why it got so [fouled] up. Can anyone name anything significant the Inspector General has reported on in the last five years?

the SEPTA Inspector general is the biggest waste and probably the biggest fraud in the whole system. Most of their investigations are quashed.

Now as far as Faye Moore being at the head. I know Im going to hear alot of negativity but because she is black and female, she got the job.