#14 Orange Line Cars 1400-1551 (From Red/Orange Procurement discussion)

Arlington wrote: As it is, lets just get CNR in business as fast as possible before the OL/RL paint can no longer keep the carbodies together.

The Red line cars being replaced have aluminum bodies.

typesix wrote:

Arlington wrote: As it is, lets just get CNR in business as fast as possible before the OL/RL paint can no longer keep the carbodies together.

The Red line cars being replaced have aluminum bodies.

Its the baling wire and chewing gum holding the mechanical parts together;)

Arlington wrote:But in this case, the die is cast. Our reps were who they were and they concocted the jobs-for-Springfield-cars-for-Boston compromise. Maybe once Springfield has commuter rail of its own they'll either get good at building railcars, or realize that nobody really wants vehicles built at a pop-up factory.

The Kawasaki commuter rail cars were built at a pop-up factory in Pittsfield. They worked out OK.

Gerry6309 wrote:

typesix wrote:

Arlington wrote: As it is, lets just get CNR in business as fast as possible before the OL/RL paint can no longer keep the carbodies together.

The Red line cars being replaced have aluminum bodies.

Its the baling wire and chewing gum holding the mechanical parts together;)

Are the red line cars in danger of failing from metal fatigue?

BandA wrote:

Gerry6309 wrote:

typesix wrote:

Arlington wrote: As it is, lets just get CNR in business as fast as possible before the OL/RL paint can no longer keep the carbodies together.

The Red line cars being replaced have aluminum bodies.

Its the baling wire and chewing gum holding the mechanical parts together;)

Are the red line cars in danger of failing from metal fatigue?

Other than the R-32 cars in New York, the 01600s are the oldest in service RT cars in the country. Some parts are hard to find and electrical failures are frequent. They will probably reach 50 years of age before being replaced. The original No. 1 cars, 1912-1962 reached that age, but half were junked in 1955, to allow for the underused No. 2 cars to earn their keep. Nothing prior or since has lasted that long.

No. 2 cars were held out of service 1912-1916 and 1935-1942. They were the only cars with GE motors. Motor trucks were swapped between 20 No. 1 and No. 2 cars in 1954, so the GE motors were scrapped with the No. 1 cars.

To date only 4 out of 52 01600s have been retired. All 24 01500s (slightly newer) remain active.

Probably nothing will ever outlast the service life of the #1/#21 "East Boston Tunnel" Pullman cars which ran from 1924 to 1980 or 56 years.

Or if you count all of the Americas, the Buenos Aires Brugeois cars which ran on Line A that were introduced in 1913 and retired in 2013 11 months before their 100th anniversary.

Jon

The wartime PCCs hit 70 years in 2015/2016. I doubt they'll make it to 100 - surely it will become less expensive at some point to convert the line for modern LRVs that to continue the small specialty fleet, or else the line will get taken over for a long-off Ashmont-Mattapan-Readville-Dedham Red Line extension. But the oldest PCCs date from 1936, and there are a lot still in use in Eastern Europe. I wouldn't be surprised at all if some cars make it to 100 years, at the very least on lines like the Muni Metro F that operate heritage cars in real transit service.

The Budd RDCs are also getting on in years - those remaining are between 53 and 66 years old. TRE and the Sudbury – White River train still run them.

jonnhrr wrote:Probably nothing will ever outlast the service life of the #1/#21 "East Boston Tunnel" Pullman cars which ran from 1924 to 1980 or 56 years.

Or if you count all of the Americas, the Buenos Aires Brugeois cars which ran on Line A that were introduced in 1913 and retired in 2013 11 months before their 100th anniversary.

Jon

The East Boston cars ran mostly in tunnel from 1924 to 1952. This kept them in fairly good condition. After their rebuild, they were stored at Orient Heights, which hastened deterioration. They started to die in the mid-1960s,and those remaining in 1979 were on their last legs.

The point that I was trying to make is that Red Line cars operate at higher speeds, on rougher track, so mechanical parts tend to wear out. The ATO system takes a toll on the cars too. Forty-five years is a good life for such equipment. Here are all the Boston figures and some from New York.

No. 1 Elevated: 27
No. 2 Elevated: 25
No. 3 Elevated: 32
No. 4 Elevated: 37
No. 5 Elevated: 38
No. 6 Elevated: 43
No. 7 Elevated: 41
No. 8 Elevated: 37
No. 9 Elevated: 35
No. 10 Elevated: 34
No. 11 Elevated: 23-24
No. 12 Elevated: 35+
No. 1 Cambridge: 43 or 50
No. 2 Cambridge: 51 (see prior post)
No. 3 Cambridge: 44
No. 4 Cambridge: 33
No. 5 Cambridge: 31
No. 1 SS: 46+
No. 2 SS: 28+
No. 3 SS: 20+
No. 1 EBT: 55
No. 2 EBT: 55
No. 3 EBT: 27
No. 4 EBT: 29
No. 5 EBT: 9+
R-33: 38
R-36: 37
R-32: 51+ (<half remain)
R-38: 42
R-40: 41
R-42: 45+ (few remain)
R-44: 42+ (few remain on SIRT only)
R-46: 38+

Gerry6309 wrote: Forty-five years is a good life for such equipment. Here are all the Boston figures and some from New York.

The R33s hit 40 (delivered in '63 (some from very late '62), into 2003. Many R36s made 39 (1964). And the Blue Line 0600s hit a full 30: 1979-2009.

R36 Combine Coach wrote:

Gerry6309 wrote: Forty-five years is a good life for such equipment. Here are all the Boston figures and some from New York.

The R33s hit 40 (delivered in '63 (some from very late '62), into 2003. Many R36s made 39 (1964). And the Blue Line 0600s hit a full 30: 1979-2009.

I was being conservative with some of those numbers. Used 2001 as R-33/R-36 retirement.

The EGE wrote:The wartime PCCs hit 70 years in 2015/2016. I doubt they'll make it to 100 - surely it will become less expensive at some point to convert the line for modern LRVs that to continue the small specialty fleet, or else the line will get taken over for a long-off Ashmont-Mattapan-Readville-Dedham Red Line extension. But the oldest PCCs date from 1936, and there are a lot still in use in Eastern Europe. I wouldn't be surprised at all if some cars make it to 100 years, at the very least on lines like the Muni Metro F that operate heritage cars in real transit service.

The Budd RDCs are also getting on in years - those remaining are between 53 and 66 years old. TRE and the Sudbury – White River train still run them.

Many of the European PCCs are a lot newer than the last ones built in the US. I think one Eastern European company is still building them, or did until quite recently.

New Orleans operates cars that are now 90 years old, and Lisbon's fleet is around the same age or older. Hiroshima still has a handful of pre-WWII cars that somehow managed to survive the bomb.

MBTA3247 wrote:

The EGE wrote:The wartime PCCs hit 70 years in 2015/2016. I doubt they'll make it to 100 - surely it will become less expensive at some point to convert the line for modern LRVs that to continue the small specialty fleet, or else the line will get taken over for a long-off Ashmont-Mattapan-Readville-Dedham Red Line extension. But the oldest PCCs date from 1936, and there are a lot still in use in Eastern Europe. I wouldn't be surprised at all if some cars make it to 100 years, at the very least on lines like the Muni Metro F that operate heritage cars in real transit service.

The Budd RDCs are also getting on in years - those remaining are between 53 and 66 years old. TRE and the Sudbury – White River train still run them.

Many of the European PCCs are a lot newer than the last ones built in the US. I think one Eastern European company is still building them, or did until quite recently.

New Orleans operates cars that are now 90 years old, and Lisbon's fleet is around the same age or older. Hiroshima still has a handful of pre-WWII cars that somehow managed to survive the bomb.

There was one problem with those Eastern European PCCs, TRC and later IRT didn't collect any royalties. That is why there was no development of new designs in the US after 1952.

TRC = Transit Research Corp., successor to ERPCC
IRT = Institute for Rapid Transit, successor to TRC

(With due respect to our moderators) I beg of participating folks, please stay on-topic! I come to this thread for news concerning new orange and red line cars & their acquisition, as titled.

Not sure if anyone saw this last month, but apparently Gov. Baker plans to examine the CNR contract:
http://www.bostonherald.com/news_opinio ... bta_trains" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Would the cost be any lower if they re-bid the contract & dropped the MA assembly plant? Probably no. Then the question is how much risk is there for quality and schedule slip, and will the T get saddled with yet another orphan product.

Gov. is smart to question every decision that the T has made.