#14 Orange Line Cars 1400-1551 (From Red/Orange Procurement discussion)

Yeah, my bad there, got my terminologies mixed up. The 89's are cool, cool trains though, and capable of handling some seriously tight curves, especially when you consider that they were just about the first modern rapid transit vehicles to have open gangways with individual trucks.

Railpace Magazine reports in its Dec. 2014 issue on page-37 that Mass DOT has approved a $566 million dollar contract with CNR MA Corp a subsidiary of a Chinese state-owned company that is the world's largest builder of railcars, to build 284 new Red and Orange Line cars.

And that there are concerns from human rights activists and complaints from the losing bidders. Anybody know what that's about? Who else bid on the contract? Did MBTA again go with a low bidder instead of a reasonably competent company like Kawasaki or Bombardier?

Head-end View wrote:Railpace Magazine reports in its Dec. 2014 issue on page-37 that Mass DOT has approved a $566 million dollar contract with CNR MA Corp a subsidiary of a Chinese state-owned company that is the world's largest builder of railcars, to build 284 new Red and Orange Line cars.

And that there are concerns from human rights activists and complaints from the losing bidders. Anybody know what that's about? Who else bid on the contract? Did MBTA again go with a low bidder instead of a reasonably competent company like Kawasaki or Bombardier?

You MUST be kidding, right? You literally provided statements/asked questions in which the info/answers are entirely available on the last four to five pages of this thread.

Head-end View wrote:Railpace Magazine reports in its Dec. 2014 issue on page-37 that Mass DOT has approved a $566 million dollar contract with CNR MA Corp a subsidiary of a Chinese state-owned company that is the world's largest builder of railcars, to build 284 new Red and Orange Line cars.

And that there are concerns from human rights activists and complaints from the losing bidders. Anybody know what that's about? Who else bid on the contract? Did MBTA again go with a low bidder instead of a reasonably competent company like Kawasaki or Bombardier?

Way to be a good 3 months late...

Well excuse me djimpact1........I didn't have time to read all 30 pages of this topic to see if this news had already been discussed. And how was I to know that Railpace Magazine wasn't entirely prompt in their reporting?

My apologies for inconveniencing you guys. And a very Merry Christmas and Happy New Year to you too.

Head-end View wrote:Well excuse me djimpact1........I didn't have time to read all 30 pages of this topic to see if this news had already been discussed. And how was I to know that Railpace Magazine wasn't entirely prompt in their reporting?

My apologies for inconveniencing you guys. And a very Merry Christmas and Happy New Year to you too. Sarcasm intended!

It was only three to four pages back, not "all 30 pages." As far as Railpace's reporting, while normally spot-on fact-wise, the publishing world can be a rather convoluted place. Even the illustrious and wholly-est of thous, TRAINS mag can often be weeks, even months behind, depending on the subject.

Cosmo wrote:

Head-end View wrote:Well excuse me djimpact1........I didn't have time to read all 30 pages of this topic to see if this news had already been discussed. And how was I to know that Railpace Magazine wasn't entirely prompt in their reporting?

My apologies for inconveniencing you guys. And a very Merry Christmas and Happy New Year to you too. Sarcasm intended!

It was only three to four pages back, not "all 30 pages." As far as Railpace's reporting, while normally spot-on fact-wise, the publishing world can be a rather convoluted place. Even the illustrious and wholly-est of thous, TRAINS mag can often be weeks, even months behind, depending on the subject.

Moral of the story: ALWAYS read, lest you make a fool of yourself.

You guys got coal in your stockings or something? You done bickering?

PBM

ferroequinarchaeologist wrote:You guys got coal in your stockings or something? You done bickering?

PBM

Somehow, i did detect a subtle "Bah Humbug" in there…

However, Railpace's charter is not to track electric rail passenger cars. Their thing is railroading in general, and they do that very well! Bulletin boards like this are usually on the cutting edge of the industry. We usually are discussing these events BEFORE they happen!

No matter how you look at it, this is a major procurement for the MBTA, which lives in environments dictated by subways built over a hundred years ago, and not to any common plan. Think of the MTA in New York, trying to buy nine cars for the 42nd St. Shuttle and 12 for the Franklin Avenue Shuttle. The MBTA cannot order subway cars by the thousands.

http://www.bostonglobe.com/metro/2015/0 ... story.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

This could get interesting!

Does anyone else here secretly hope that this leads to a re-do of the bid process under a new administration and free of Cadillac Deval's corruption and cronyism?

That whole "visit to China with Decal and Davey on a 'trade mission' where they tour the CNR factory before, shockingly, awarding them the contract despite glaring concerns about quality, safety, US rail experience, and human rights records because their bid just happened to line up with all of Deval's ridiculous requirements" business absolutely reeked of corruption last year, and it still reeks today.

Oh, what irony it would be if it was Rotem of all parties that led to a re-do of the bids due to questions about quality and experience. Let's just hope that it gets us Bombardiers or Kawasakis.

Hyundai Rotem officials claim that MBTA’s evaluation of CNR’s bid was “unreasonably high, arbitrary, capricious, and lacked any rational basis,” based on the Chinese company’s inexperience in North America. [emphasis added]

Anyone else find this terribly ironic? Rotem, of all companies, complaining that a company shouldn't get the contract because they have no experience in North America?

I laughed out loud at the notion of Rotem arguing that the rollout of transit hardware from an untested asian manufacturer could be a debacle of miscommunication and awful quality control.

They probably did too.

Bramdeisroberts wrote:Does anyone else here secretly hope that this leads to a re-do of the bid process

Definitely yes!

deathtopumpkins wrote:Let's just hope that it gets us Bombardiers or Kawasakis.

Exactly. The stuff the MTA has bought for years for NYC Subway, LIRR, and Metro-North. Is it any wonder why they keep going back to them (and Alstom, etc.) for more.

Heck we'd be better off having the MBTA annexed to the MTA. Pure shameless impossible fantasy I know, but at least we'd get equipment that won't make the papers for lack of reliability and delivery.

I've said all along, all the T should have done is dispensed with the idiotic "Made" in MA" requirement and hit up Bombardier or Kawasaki to order some lengthened IRT carbodies with orange stripes on them, and order some BMT/IND carbodies with red stripes on them. It's that simple.

Bramdeisroberts wrote:I've said all along, all the T should have done is dispensed with the idiotic "Made" in MA" requirement and hit up Bombardier or Kawasaki to order some lengthened IRT carbodies with orange stripes on them, and order some BMT/IND carbodies with red stripes on them. It's that simple.

To that, add F-Line's plan to spend a coupla hundred million to let the Green Line handle standard LRVs.

But in this case, the die is cast. Our reps were who they were and they concocted the jobs-for-Springfield-cars-for-Boston compromise. Maybe once Springfield has commuter rail of its own they'll either get good at building railcars, or realize that nobody really wants vehicles built at a pop-up factory. As it is, lets just get CNR in business as fast as possible before the OL/RL paint can no longer keep the carbodies together.